Paypal Chargeback

jerometeezy · Oct 25, 2020

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

SaltnVinegar · Oct 25, 2020

@LeoSaiken Respond here please. Why did you open a PayPal dispute?

Nxp · Oct 25, 2020

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

SaltnVinegar · Oct 25, 2020

Thank you for the input @Nxp

We will wait and see if there is a response from @LeoSaiken, whom will need to now give some extra good reason why he went ahead with his PayPal dispute, despite been advised several times not to. Also to boot, claiming he never received the product when he did.

LeoSaiken · Oct 25, 2020

When I first bought the account in September, I asked the seller if I'd be the only person with access to it from now on, he said yes. A month later, I noticed activities on the account that would suggest that there was a 2nd person on the account. For 2 days, I didn't log into the account at all but I noticed there were unclaimed rewards from quests, which I didn't do because I was busy and didn't play for 2 days. I tried to report this issue to the seller and tried to backtrace the origin of the account to see if I can find the original owner. I was able to find some the previous owners (there is no way to tell all the owners since it changed hands so many times). @Nxp happened to be one of the previous owners. He tried to confirm to me that the FB login and Google Play logins were deleted, which turned out to not be true at all.

As you can see from the image above, this is what he told me. I was able to get in touch with the other person who was on the account, which turned out to be @thecerealmaker. He informed me that he bought the account from a guy name @S1mpleMadz back in July. Turns out I have the Klab Id login and @thecerealmaker have the Google Play login (which I thought was deleted?) Nxp claimed that he deleted the Google Play login, which wasn't even possible since he bought the account at least a month later. I informed Nxp of this and he started a group chat with only @thecerealmaker and myself (not sure why he didn't include all the others involved), he did warn me that I'd be doing a chargeback scam against @jerometeezy if I were to do a dispute. However, I had suggested that I can return the login information to jerome, which would then make this a refund and not a chargeback. I am willing to give the account back since it has been compromised and I no longer want to keep it. But Nxp didn't like that and insist that we do a process starting from the first person who bought the account from @S1mpleMadz. I'll include his process below.

There is actually quite a few people who have owned this account. Starting with @S1mpleMadz -> @Isukage -> @RevoThePimp -> @Nxp -> @jerometeezy -> @LeoSaiken. So it would be like a domino effect, if we are to get our money back, we all need to file a dispute claim. Now, keep in mind that the ones with the login information at this point are @thecerealmaker and myself. So how can it be consider a refund if let's say Nxp were to do a chargeback against @RevoThePimp? He's not able to to return the login information if he doesn't have it, which would of course make this a chargeback scam situation as well, because he wouldn't be returning the item he bought to the seller. We are responsible for our own individual transactions seeing as how it's our money and no one else and eventually we'd all need to file a dispute claim to get our money back anyway, so the order of the claims shouldn't matter. We can all file a dispute at the same time against the person we bought it from. If we are to go through @Nxp's process then there need to be a high level of trust for it to work because you would need to wait for everyone before you to get their money back, confirm it, and then you can file your dispute. What if the person never confirm it? What can you do to this person? Keep in mind that this process could take months to years until it even get to me. Again, I'm the person with the login information so it would make more sense if I were to go first and make our way down the list starting with the most recent transactions, not the earlier ones first...

I had thought of an alternative to resolve the situation but it didn't seem like @Nxp like my suggestions very much. Below are some of the things said by me, @LeoSaiken.

I had talked to @jerometeezy and @thecerealmaker and they both don't agree with the process set forth by @Nxp. Keep in mind that we all need to do a dispute to get our money back, so the order shouldn't matter. It doesn't make sense for me to wait 5 months for these guys to resolve their issues... Again, we all need to do a dispute if we want our own money back, which would result in chargeback scams charges for everyone involved since they no longer have the login information to return the account for a refund. If this were the case, and you feel the need to ban someone from your site, I'm willing to take the bullet, please don't ban anyone else but me. Below are some of the other things said by me in the group chat that our friendly local Moderator @Nxp failed to include. Seems like he only included a sentence of what I said, how weird....

Nxp · Oct 25, 2020

Okay, For starters i did state i did not delete the Google play but the IOS one. As i corrected myself.

And as for the refund. I stated as advised by @EpicNPC to which is the Owner. To open a dispute about the account and provide all evidence. That way they can review it and make a judgement call.

There is a right and wrong way to go about this and getting a refund for the account and you are going about it the WRONG way. As i stated multiple times you are currently doing a chargeback scam against @jerometeezy which had no idea like myself that the account had been sold to 2 different people. So you are scamming someone who had no part in this matter what so ever.
The process you had advised everyone to do was to just do a charge back on PayPal until it lead to S1mpleMadz. That just means everyone will be doing charge back scams on everyone and thats not how this process works at all.

As for the group chat i invited both of you into that chat due to the fact you two are the ones with access to the account. So to put it simple for you, i was seeing who was going to keep ownership of the account because that person would need to open a dispute like i stated there multiple times. To which you ignored again.

I have spoken to both @jerometeezy and @thecerealmaker and both of them did not state at all that the process i put forward they disagreed with.
I never once stated that you should not be refunded at all. I was trying to resolve this in a way it didn't put people out of pocket. But since you are impatient and instead of opening a dispute about the account you just went ahead and did a PayPal charge back Scam. Now @jerometeezy is out of pocket $267. Did you think about the effects this would have on this person?

Nxp · Oct 25, 2020

Also at the time when you wanted to get a refund for the account, You just stated and abused @jerometeezy saying that he is accessing the account with no proof other then your word. When you contacted me about it i asked for screen shots of certain things and you replied with "what does screenshots prove"
Not only that @jerometeezy also asked for screenshots to prove it just to be met with more abuse.

@jerometeezy could've blocked you when you started abusing him and threatening him but he didn't. He was trying to help/sort this mess out and now you have done a PP Chargeback on the person who was trying to help you.
Not only that i have been in constant contact with both parties trying to work this out and all you have to reply with is "All i have to do is a chargeback on PP"
You knew the risk of doing a PP charge back against him and you still went ahead and did it.

Also there was no need to include the rest of your sentence, as you stated your happy to do a charge back scam and take the ban. The rest of that sentence is meaningless when you are admitting to scamming.

And lastly as i will state again, i did not agree with your "process" of getting your money back because you are saying everyone just needs to scam everyone to get their money back.
You did not listen to one word of advise i gave you when i was trying to help all parties in this matter, just became arrogant when things weren't going your way. Simple as that.

LeoSaiken · Oct 25, 2020

Ok let's just talk about your right way to do this then. Go ahead and enlighten us on how you plan on getting your money back from this scam. We are all victims here and yet you're making out to be the bad guy. I confronted jerome and he said it wasn't him but how was I supposed to really know that it's not him? Also again, what would screenshots have proven? That there was activity on the account? I don't follow your train of thought here. And for the record, I did send him those screenshots as he requested. If I'm not mistaken, I also sent 1 of the screenshot to you. The only thing that proved was that there were activities on the account. The moment I contacted you, you were already doubting my claim and thought that I was lying. I had to actually go about proving my own innocence to you all, which I really didn't need to do to be quite frank with you.

This process that you spoke of - who would be in charge of making sure it works? And is there an estimated time given? Hmm how are you so confident that you can get people's money back? We are in charge of our own money, nobody else. Unless you have access to our paypal or work for paypal, you can't be making claims that you can't back up. You think your process is better so go ahead and enlighten us with what it is that you're thinking of doing. Just keep in mind that you won't be refunding anything as cereal maker and myself are the ones with the account currently. I wonder what you would be returning to the person you bought the account from...air?

If you want to accuse me of scam, sure I'll take it. But I was the one that got scammed first, have you ever bought something and then find out later that it also belong to someone else? I understand that you are saying that jerome did not know about this but how are you so certain at the time that he wasn't lying. As you stated to me, jerome could've been the one accessing the account. You don't even believe him and somehow you expected me to?

As for you saying that he has no part in this whatsoever.... you're mistaken because we all played a part in this. You can't just make arguments that works to your advantage. I'm going to point this out to you again so you understand, we are all affected by this. Seem like you're upset with me for pointing out loop holes in your plan. Instead of working together to resolve, it was either your way or the highway as I recall, which is why we're here. Also, do you really think that @thecerealmaker and @jerometeezy would really agree with your RIGHT process? Go ahead and provide us with some proof of this. I doubt that you even let them know of this process that you spoke of 4 days ago. @thecerealmaker might know of it but I doubt @jerometeezy was informed.

Also don't try to shame me for something you'll eventually end up doing anyway. That doesn't even make sense... We need to get the ball rolling here as it's a domino effect. Need one person to start it and since I'm the one that started it, you can go ahead and ban me from your site if you feel I violated your righteous policy. I understand that jerome is now out of money, but I think he'll be able to recover this back from you the same way I recover it from him. And you from the person before you. Sure you can call me getting my money back a scam but keep in mind that you'll be doing the exact same thing.

Nxp · Oct 25, 2020

LeoSaiken said:
Also don't try to shame me for something you'll eventually end up doing anyway. That doesn't even make sense... We need to get the ball rolling here as it's a domino effect. Need one person to start it and since I'm the one that started it, you can go ahead and ban me from your site if you feel I violated your righteous policy. I understand that jerome is now out of money, but I think he'll be able to recover this back from you the same way I recover it from him. And you from the person before you. Sure you can call me getting my money back a scam but keep in mind that you'll be doing the exact same thing.

That's where you are very wrong. You are the only person in this matter at the moment that has scammed someone. I will not be putting a paypal dispute in UNLESS it cannot be cleared on this site first. As i stated this is the RIGHT way to do this. But you did not even try, you just went straight to scamming @jerometeezy. You should've been patient, opened a dispute about the account and not gone straight for a PP charge back as i stated MULTIPLE times.
And as for "my" process, as i stated YOU need to open a dispute about the account to get the ball rolling not wait for someone else to do it. As you are the one with access to the account and not me. I was only there to guide and help you through the right process but you choose to ignore it and do it "your" way.

Now that you have done a PP Charge back scam, it is now up to the Admins/SS to review and make a decision.
Admins/SS if you need any further information from me, i'll be happy to assists in any way

LeoSaiken · Oct 25, 2020

Nxp said:
as i stated YOU need to open a dispute about the account to get the ball rolling not wait for someone else to do it

right so I got the ball rolling as you said

Nxp · Oct 25, 2020

LeoSaiken said:
You can't just make arguments that works to your advantage. I'm going to point this out to you again so you understand, we are all affected by this. Seem like you're upset with me for pointing out loop holes in your plan. Instead of working together to resolve, it was either your way or the highway as I recall, which is why we're here.

Lastly, Nothing in the process works to my advantage, and time after time i warned and advised that you should not do a PP Charge back and do it the right way but you did not listen. I'm not stating my process i suggested was perfect in any way, all you had to do was open a dispute and the Admins/SS would've suggested and enforced the correct actions to take.
So when you say " it was either my way or the highway" My way was the correct actions to take as suggested by EpicNPC owner other then scamming people like your way. On top of that you did not make any other suggestions other then "Lets all do a PP Charge back" Meaning why doesn't everyone just scam everyone?

Once again any advice i give you will go in one ear and out the other so from here on the Admins/SS will review this and take actions regarding your PP Charge back scam.

LeoSaiken · Oct 25, 2020

Nxp said:
So when you say " it was either my way or the highway" My way was the correct actions to take as suggested by EpicNPC owner other then scamming people like your way. On top of that you did not make any other suggestions other then "Lets all do a PP Charge back" Meaning why doesn't everyone just scam everyone?

Funny how you call me the scammer when I'm the one that got scammed. Also, I had suggested that I would be more than happy to return the account but you wouldn't accept that resolution. So now I'm without my money and stuck with a compromised account. Did you think of that? Your correct action would've ended up hurting me as I don't know how long this would even take to resolve. I can't just be waiting months for this to resolve as I'm sure you can understand that. Also, did you even bother to relay my resolution to the owner?

Angel · Oct 26, 2020

I have read only a first Nxp post. Here is proved that the account has been sold to more than one person. @LeoSaiken already chargeback his payment so he needs to return the account or provide the login to another person who bought the same account. By this issue should be resolved as only one person will have account access. @LeoSaiken please update after you return the account to the seller

Also to clarify things, @jerometeezy sold the account to @LeoSaiken and @thecerealmaker is that correct?

jerometeezy · Oct 26, 2020

I only sold the account to @LeoSaiken .

Angel · Oct 26, 2020

Then who sold the account to @thecerealmaker?

jerometeezy · Oct 26, 2020

According to @Npx

jerometeezy · Oct 26, 2020

So what now? I have $-280 on my PayPal

Nxp · Oct 26, 2020

@Angel
@S1mpleMadz sold the account to 2 people.

This where the account ended up.
20th July
@S1mpleMadz sold it to @Isukage
From there it went from > @Isukage > @RevoThePimp > @Nxp > @jerometeezy > @LeoSaiken
21st July
@S1mpleMadz sold the account to @thecerealmaker a day after @Isukage bought it.

For some reason though @thecerealmaker did not play the account until a few days ago when these problems started. So from this whole time, my self included we had no idea that someone else had access to the account.
@jerometeezy did not double sell the account. From a sellers point he did nothing wrong

Angel · Oct 26, 2020

By this point, none of the new owners knew that @thecerealmaker is an owner too until he did not start to play?

jerometeezy · Oct 26, 2020

I do not even know that @thecerealmaker has an access or even an owner of the account.

Nxp · Oct 26, 2020

Angel said:
By this point, none of the new owners knew that @thecerealmaker is an owner too until he did not start to play?

Correct as he did not access the account until only recently.
He also did say this to me on the 25th July. 4 days after purchasing the account -

Angel · Oct 26, 2020

I will need proof from @thecerealmaker that he also pay for this account. Please post an entire conversation image with payment proof.

LeoSaiken · Oct 26, 2020

https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/whale-bbs-account-250.1659310/ <- this is where cerealmaker bought it, back in July.

As I have no intention of keeping a compromised account, I am more than happy to return the account to @jerometeezy once I get my refund. Then @jerometeezy can get his refund and return the account to @Nxp and so on.

Nxp · Oct 26, 2020

LeoSaiken said:
https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/whale-bbs-account-250.1659310/ <- this is where cerealmaker bought it, back in July.

As I have no intention of keeping a compromised account, I am more than happy to return the account to @jerometeezy once I get my refund. Then @jerometeezy can get his refund and return the account to @Nxp and so on.

This couldve been done without doing a charge back like i explained.
@thecerealmaker can you please post confimation of you buying the account, proof of purchase and chat logs of purchase like @Angel requested

LeoSaiken · Oct 26, 2020

Nxp said:
This couldve been done without doing a charge back like i explained.

you said for everyone to get a refund, but you never explained how

Angel · Oct 27, 2020

There is another dispute opened against @S1mpleMadz so i am not going to update this until we see if he is going to respond or no

thecerealmaker · Oct 27, 2020

I played the account when I bought it on the 20th cause of the anniversary event and even spent money on it for pulls that's how it got the byakuya and played the account only until the part2 of anniversary began where there was an uruyu with stein Ritter banner then I took a break cause of life issues and recently I decided to come back and saw that the account has been played recently

thecerealmaker · Oct 27, 2020

Here are all the photos but I don't know why isu said he bought the 20th est time when I already bought it then and played it then

thecerealmaker · Oct 27, 2020

Also I understand that this was an off website sale and the logs on epic might differ since he probably sold it to both of us at the same time but when I talked to isu and he sent me his PayPal receipt it showed he sent the money on the 28th

jerometeezy · Oct 29, 2020

Pretty sure that simplemadz won't respond anymore.

Angel · Oct 29, 2020

@S1mpleMadz has been banned and this issue can be resolved in only one way.

@thecerealmaker and @LeoSaiken will be excluded from this decision as the first did not sell the account and the second one already chargeback his payment back. After my decision @LeoSaiken should return the account to @thecerealmaker

@Isukage @RevoThePimp @Nxp @jerometeezy should split the loss into four equal parts. By this @Isukage @RevoThePimp @Nxp should refund to @jerometeezy 67 USD each

Nxp · Oct 29, 2020

Angel said:
@S1mpleMadz has been banned and this issue can be resolved in only one way.

@thecerealmaker and @LeoSaiken will be excluded from this decision as the first did not sell the account and the second one already chargeback his payment back. After my decision @LeoSaiken should return the account to @thecerealmaker

@Isukage @RevoThePimp @Nxp @jerometeezy should split the loss into four equal parts. By this @Isukage @RevoThePimp @Nxp should refund to @jerometeezy 67 USD each

If that is your decision then i am happy to do that.
My question is,
S1mpleMadz sold the account twice. Meaning shouldn't @Isukage should put a paypal dispute in on him as he technically got scammed by him? Otherwise he still gets to keep his double payment for the account and just cops a ban which i assume he had no problem taking.
What are your thoughts on this @Angel ?

jerometeezy · Oct 29, 2020

[email protected] is my email for PayPal.

Angel · Oct 30, 2020

Nxp said:
If that is your decision then i am happy to do that.
My question is,
S1mpleMadz sold the account twice. Meaning shouldn't @Isukage should put a paypal dispute in on him as he technically got scammed by him? Otherwise he still gets to keep his double payment for the account and just cops a ban which i assume he had no problem taking.
What are your thoughts on this @Angel ?

Yes, @Isukage has to dispute his payment

jerometeezy · Oct 30, 2020

Sorry I do not get this, will I get the same amount as the negative charge in my PayPal which is $-280? Clarify it to me if I am wrong. Thank you

Angel · Oct 30, 2020

jerometeezy said:
Sorry I do not get this, will I get the same amount as the negative charge in my PayPal which is $-280? Clarify it to me if I am wrong. Thank you

No, you will get 67 USD from each previous owner unless @Isukage wins the dispute then he will be able to cover your full loss. @Isukage how much you pay for the account to @S1mpleMadz?

Isukage · Oct 30, 2020

It was 300 USD, should I dispute it? I mean I didn’t really take a loss but it’s unfair for others so I guess I will try

Angel · Oct 30, 2020

Isukage said:
It was 300 USD, should I dispute it? I mean I didn’t really take a loss but it’s unfair for others so I guess I will try

In case you win the dispute, you will have to cover the full loss to @jerometeezy so others @RevoThePimp @Nxp will not have to pay anything. Please update how the dispute goes

Isukage · Oct 30, 2020

Will do

Isukage · Nov 1, 2020

Waiting for his response , I wonder how he will slither his way through this one now

Angel · Nov 3, 2020

Any update?

Isukage · Nov 6, 2020

Well it’s just going back and forth, PayPal has received a reply for him and I’m now waiting for a verdict , since the chargeback wasn’t automatic it seems that he gave rather a detailed lie to PayPal , hopefully all goes well , right now the matter is in PayPal’s hands

Isukage · Nov 6, 2020

Sorry for being inactive btw, it’s a bit hard keeping myself accompanied in this pandemic , and also dealing with this issue at the same time

Angel · Nov 9, 2020

Any update?

Isukage · Nov 9, 2020

Angel said:
Any update?

Nothing yet, ill keep pressing PayPal reminding them that it’s an urgent matter. One time it took weeks to get a verdict from PayPal, but as time goes by the less hope I have of me winning the chargeback, even when I provided all the evidence.

Angel · Nov 13, 2020

Update please

EpicNPC CM · Nov 17, 2020

Any update?

EpicNPC CM · Nov 19, 2020

@Isukage please update

Adoxia · Nov 22, 2020

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Angel · Nov 22, 2020

Adoxia said:
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Paypal Chargeback

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