Not exactly a scam post, but an issue none the less. About newt0n.

[MMO-Armory.com]

Not exactly a scam post, but an issue none the less.

First of all let share some advice that I need to listen to myself: Do not accept payment plans when selling accounts. As in 50% now, 50 % later etc. There's reason why many sellers assign credit payments to third-party companies. Buyers tend to be problematic. I would say 80% of the time when I sell with a payment-plan, it ended up problematic. DONT accept payment plans.

I am posting this issue in complaint to MD User, and in anticipation from a post launched towards me. I have learned from past experience that it is best to make the thread first, rather than wait for the other party to make one and make it look as if I am the party at fault. According to an MD Mod, this is where I should be posting.

Mods, fellow users, there is no need to notify the other party yet, as I will try to resolve this personally with him. If that does not work, I will point him to this post myself. If he makes a post without knowing this one exists, I will only continue the discussion on this post.

The MD User is:
I will refer to him as Newton.

I will try to be concise:

This is the sum of the issue in 1 sentence: Newton purchased an account from Jano, paid 50%, and refused to pay the other 50% with reasons that is unacceptable by Jano. (Note: Newton did not demand a refund yet. This is not an issue until he does ask for a refund. If he's fine with me keeping the 50% then there is no issue.)

Newton wanted to buy a scarab lord for me for quite some time now. He has always pestered me to allow him to do 2 things:
- Pay via PayPal
- Pay with a payment plan
I deeply hate both payment plans, and PayPal (although I will accept paypal fully in a few weeks)

He wanted to pay in 3 terms for my Scarab Lord Warlock. I could not take his offer. Then I offered him a new account that I recently acquired, a Scarab Lord Human Female Warrior, with absolutely nothing good but the mount. Newton went crazy over this account and wanted me to make sure it gets in his hand.

He agreed to Western Union, but unfortunately, he still wanted a payment plan. Not listening to my better judgement, I caved in to Newton's persistence and agreed to allow 50% payment now, and 50% after. I agreed.

We spoke around 3PM my local time, I can pick up WU payments up to 4ish. Although Newton sent the WU at 4ish, I only received the correct full info of the pay
at 5ish. The bank was closed. Newton was disappointed. I again stretched my boundaries and allowed him to gain the username and password of the account prior to me receiving the payment as I can only pick it up a day after.

So I gave him account info, and the following rules were set forth:
1) The account receives full warranty against recall (as per my terms and agreement that I can link to, it's not an issue related to this post tho).
2) There are no refunds/cancellation for the account purchase
3) The 2nd payment must be made in due time otherwise I will temporarily restrict access to the account. Full access and full info will be given with the final 50% payment.

Important point: the account was not on the website and was scheduled for processing by my staff. Which means he will login, take screenshots, and put the account on the website listing. Account info was also not 100% complete yet as my staff hasn't checked everything. It was a great account that I let go on a special offer, pre-listed on the website.

The 1 issue that is in my opinion the only issue that carried weight was that the account Char Transfer was down. But it was only for 1 week. Hardly a long time.

However, being a good power-seller, I <span style="font-weight: bold">immediately</span> offered him a full refund and to cancel the purchase at that very moment. He declined, and said that he wanted to keep the account, leaving a note that he was displeased. I of course allowed him to keep the account. This was the only point-in-time that I would offer a refund. After he said he would keep it, we are back to the original agreement.

After Newton received the username and password, he did not change it yet. I did not specifically ask him to either. I have already noted in my account database that his account is already given to a buyer, on a note that its not fully paid. The note wasn't received by my staff so he logged in to the account to do his job, while Newton was on. A minor inconvenience at most, after he logged out he never logged in again.

Just as a note, my acc database staff is only 1 person. I meet him regularly, know him for a very long time, and works in a company in which the owner has the highest Networth in Indonesia. His boss plays WoW, and he does this account listing job for me simply as a hobby. My point is that he is <span style="font-weight: bold"> more than qualified</span> to handle this job securely. And on top of that my warranty guarantees that these accounts will be safe from recall, and if it gets recalled, I would cover it with my warranty.

Now is where the issue kicks in. Today I receive the following message from Newton:

<span style="font-style: italic">xnewt0nx
well i guess youll get this when you get back, i would suggest to you that you recall the SL
i can not and will not be giving you the second 650, for a few reasons #1 it would stretch me too tight money wise and #2 too many people have looged it lately, i just dont want it anymore
if you want the pw ill email it to you, no problem but i cant give you the second half of the payment</span>

Response to #1: A buyer's financial issue is not of my concern.
Response to #2: the only person who has logged to it lately is my staff, and the buyer. Again this is nonsensical to believe the account is jeopardized due to <span style="font-weight: bold">MY Staff</span> logging in to do his job. It is a standard procedure, and it has happened due to the fact that I have given Newton the privilege to snag the account prior to it being listed. On top of that the warranty ensures that his account is safe.


My stance on the issue:
- Due to his request for me to take back the account, and his solid-statement on unwillingness to complete the payment, I have taken back the account via simple password recovery.
- As agreed there is no cancellation/refund for the account.
- If the buyer wants to cancel the 2nd payment, it is not a problem, I will just keep the account, but I will not provide a refund.
- If the buyer demands a refund, as I said, I can not do this.
- If the buyer changes his mind I have allowed the buyer to send the 2nd half of the payment by July 19. After that the account is no longer available for the buyer to take, and the original 50% payment remains with me.


To fellow friends who are selling accounts: these types of issues almost ALWAYS happen when you sell accounts on credit, or are willing to let people owe you money. Let me cite some quick examples of recent bad experiences:
- $2000 Loss from a client I know for 3 years who ended up non paying.
- People who buy an account on credit, then wish to trade it 3 months later cos they are bored. If you accept the trade, you lose out. If you deny it, they get disappointed and no longer wants to pay you by simply saying "Take back the account, I don't want it anymore."



====

Please don't notify Newton yet, as I said, this is just a precautionary post. I will talk to Newton first and find out exactly what he wants.

If Newton makes a post, direct him here. this is where I will want to discuss the issue.

Thanks.

======


Edit: Well screw me lol. That MD user is -already- banned from this forums.

Well, I guess I should still post this anyway to get the records straight.

 

[Durkadur]

Interesting post Jano, since the MD user is allready banned, I am sure the mod will forgive me for posting my point of view.

This kind of situation is indeed something fragile, one one hand you had a clear agreement whit your buyer, and I am completely whit you on this side, if he cant make the second payment because of his ''financial concern'' or because he doesn't want to, you should be all entitled to keep the account plus the money. The time he spent on the account ( regard that in this case it might be quite small but on some other cases it could easily be weeks or months) you are loosing money by not selling it to the fullest extend.

On the other hand trough, removing access to the account and keeping the money may be morally wrong, that is a debatable subject, one thing for sure if would end up doing that, chances are you would loose a customer and that it could possibly hurt you and your reputation in the long term.

One solution that could be positive is that you allow to complete the rest of the payment in 2 different payment over a long period of time, it doesn't benefit your pocket directly, but it show that you go to great length in order to benefit your customer.

Just my input, good luck resolving this Jano.

 

[Gankstahz-Banned]

well he is kinda of [censored] out of luck, he paid you $650 but he doesn't have the other $650 but you won't refund him half but wont' give him the account lol

 

[BlackMeth]

Banned - failed to resolve scam thread - http://vbforums.mmobay.net/scammers/407058-scammer-blackmeth-levalon-aim-oursmithfamily05.html

Agreed you had specific terms of agreement.. And he agreed to them.. but you have to look at both sides.

I bought a accnt before and someone logged on while i was on as well.. i demanded a full refund.. No matter how trusted your friend or employee is, There is always that chance.. Newton is not Directly working with you.. face to facet to say, which means he don't know your friend or employees so his mind is probaly going frantic scared that his $ is spent on a non secure account. You should of made a phone call for your employee not to log on to the account. seeing how it was "sold" or under a sale warranty.

Im not really taking sides, but only YOU know how legit you are.. plus's and TWV only helps us rest a litle bit better.. but him being kicked off the account, def would make him a little bit jumpy. with the person i bought my accnt from. if i felt unsafe cause someone logged on.. we would of worked out a deal. But again it comes to customer service and how happy you want your buyers to be.

but also.. i see your side and he's already been banned for being a scammer.. but.. you honestly should give a partial refund.. just to keep "Face" and he can never say nothing bad or that you didn't try to make him happy

 

[MMO-Armory.com]

Hi,

Thanks for the input everyone.

Just want to update that the issue is partially resolved.

Although I stay firm on not giving out a refund, I have offered him an account of equal value to the partial payment that I have received, and he seems to be happy with the decision.

Abandoning thread for now unless there is an important update.

This thread may be locked if the mods wish so, I can always copy paste the original thread if needed in the future.