Is Italy going to exit scam?

[P1trsavanger]

https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/unresponsive-to-refund-request-italy.1668049/

Wow. This doesnt look good at all. What he said in the thread seems shady. He obviously doesnt know how BTC works and refuses to refund customers money.
I wonder if EpicNPC saw some proof for his claims. Why does he still have Verified and Trusted badge? I hope @EpicNPC has a good reason to trust him. What deal did he make with the mods behind the scene? Why does it take someone making a report before admins start acting? If what he said was true and told them in advance.
How can someone dealing in this type of business be so foolish and trust someone with so much of his money? Why would @ITALY not refund customers which money wasnt stolen? The BTC is still in his wallet. And instead refund people that got their money stolen as he claims that he refunded 20k already?

 

[ITALY]

No, I am not going to exit scam, yes I will refund all users, please do not tag me thanks.
My bdages can be removed, I had no deal done behind the scenes. Simply I make more money being legit than exit scamming, therefore It would be insane to exit scam.
I have dealt much higher imports than these, simply I got exit scammed.
There is a litigation involved therefore I cannot share much, however all users will be refunded.
The money I "have" is TAX MONEY, therefore I will not use it to issue a refund as It'd be devastating in terms of Credit Score, that being said I take full responsability for the loss and will refund the users. These 3 BTC addresses are literally not mine I am not lying, I do not have direct access to these accounts, but I do have money-

 

[Romolus]

Before you declare some conspiracy theories involving us moderators, it would be nice to come to us first and ask us about our personal opinion about the situation at hand. We moderators aren’t even involved and just are silence withnesses in what is currently taking place. We have absolutely no say in this, but can only voice our own opinions and views. From what I have seen in the three years of being member of this forums I do not want to believe that Italy is inherently a bad person, since I have talked to him on several occasions in the past. I personally will take the stance of: Innocent until proven guilty. Or guilty when insufficient informations are provided.

That matters have been handled slightly unprofessional on his side is totally out of question and something I do will immediately agree on with the people, who have yet to receive their refunds by Italy.

And another thing, I hardly believe that our admin has much of an interest in suffering a scandal that would put our websites reputation in jeopardy. Seeing how he also banned high feedback vendors off the plattform you can be sure that he won’t make an exception, if someone was found blantly scamming without any signs of remorse or guilt to their action. If the person is a threat to the security they will be kept permanently banned.

Remember, things in this world are not just Black and White, they are more complicated. And sometimes, crap hits the fan when you expect it the least.

I think one possible solution after thinking for it a while, would be to issues partial refunds in installments, so that the people have some security that eventually they will receive all the funds returned to them.

 

[P1trsavanger]

Sorry, when I said mods, I meant admins.

And now he claims that the addresses are not his...? Yeah, he cant handle this situation any worse. This is far from the professional Italy portraits himself to be. If he lost the wallet without having a backup then thats just sad or he lied about owning them.
I think the admin is doing a mistake trusting him so much. Its better to be safe than sorry.

 

[doomedtofail]

@P1trsavanger
Italy will be taking a ban until its refunded how is that trusting him so much? Mike cannot literally take the money from Italy and give it back. If Italy says he will not refund until he has the money to thats all it will be. He cannot force Italy to give it back immediately either. So hes trying to make the best of the situation by trying to work out a deal.

 

[P1trsavanger]

How? If he knew about it maybe even before the reports, why did it take several days to put warning on his profile? He didnt ask for any proof for his claims. We dont even know who (if true) exit scammed him.

 

[Okawari]

It's a shitty situation that could have been handled better from italy's side.
But he would be the biggest ****ing moron to exit scam i'm pretty sure he makes more money being on here then doing **** like this but then again humans will always be humans and humans do dumb ****ing things.

I would rather make more money in the long run then have money right now that is significantly less then what i would make in the future with this platform.
And i'm pretty sure italy has the same mind set. It's a lot of money i get it but all of this comes with a risk and people keep forgetting that.

 

[Adoxia]

Here’s the entire issue with this thread. We do not know all the facts and evidence that has been provided. Most users look at a dispute thread and assume that it has everything listed in it. There are tons of cases were we have evidence pmed to us and we handle it that way.

We don’t take deals from people, our job is to try and resolve disputes and have a positive outcome for the person being scammed. If we outright just ban every person that has scammed instantly then the disputes would not get resolved and the ones who got scammed would be at a loss every time.

I have zero issue banning anyone that scams, as long as it is reported properly with the proof. I do not care if they have 0 feedback or 3,000 feedbacks. Mike has also had to ban multiple users that were highly trusted in the community. However, banning isn’t the first decision we have to come to. It will always be to find an outcome that fixes the issue.

 

[deraaz]

Scammer ! BEWARE.

I was also scammed out of the twitch partnership he offered like many others. There are many he hasn't contacted and don't even know ! He promised a 3 month window so many customers are patiently waiting!

I checked in on the forums and found he was being investigated. He never even mentioned our deal not working till i messaged him! He said he simply forgot.

I sent him 850 Euros and he didn't even write it down?!

He used these "bullshit" credentials of this site to scam people and now wont return their money. This site should be equally accountable for allowing a staff member to scam like this. We have GURAUNTEE MONEY BACK if anything goes wrong with a stamp from the website.

unacceptable this is not the end of the matter.

 

[Adoxia]

Scammer ! BEWARE.

I was also scammed out of the twitch partnership he offered like many others. There are many he hasn't contacted and don't even know ! He promised a 3 month window so many customers are patiently waiting!

I checked in on the forums and found he was being investigated. He never even mentioned our deal not working till i messaged him! He said he simply forgot.

I sent him 850 Euros and he didn't even write it down?!

He used these "bullshit" credentials of this site to scam people and now wont return their money. This site should be equally accountable for allowing a staff member to scam like this. We have GURAUNTEE MONEY BACK if anything goes wrong with a stamp from the website.

unacceptable this is not the end of the matter.

You can post in the dispute that is already opened against him with the proof of your transaction.

 

[deraaz]

You can post in the dispute that is already opened against him with the proof of your transaction.

Frankly the way this is being handled I can't imagine that will do much good. The website isn't taking responsibility or reimbursing the people ripped off, even though the website approves his service. Hes lied over and over, hasn't repaid anyone. Said he did.

He's a scam you guys are going to lose a lot of credibility if you don't figure this out. He's already scammed tens of thousands of dollars from your visitors . I for one won't let this go quietly.

 

[Adoxia]

Frankly the way this is being handled I can't imagine that will do much good. The website isn't taking responsibility or reimbursing the people ripped off, even though the website approves his service. Hes lied over and over, hasn't repaid anyone. Said he did.

He's a scam you guys are going to lose a lot of credibility if you don't figure this out. He's already scammed tens of thousands of dollars from your visitors . I for one won't let this go quietly.

I'm not going to argue points with you on this, we have a dispute system in place for a reason. You can handle it how everyone else has too. I'm also not going to get into a pointing fingers match. Italy already owned up by saying he messed up & the admins are dealing with it. We can't just jump into users bitcoin wallets are force them to pay you back.

 

[deraaz]

This type of stance is beyond acceptable. I won't argue either. Your points are moot. He set up a scam and with a simple " i made a mistake" you are saying " oh **** happens " . You have a trade with caution banner on his name???? wtf is that.

HE STOLE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FROM PEOPLE. DO NOT PROCEED WITH CAUTION, DO NOT PROCEED AT ALL!

This is honestly ridiculous. Makes you equally suspicious to act as if this isn't exactly what it is.

 

[Adoxia]

This type of stance is beyond acceptable. I won't argue either. Your points are moot. He set up a scam and with a simple " i made a mistake" you are saying " oh **** happens " . You have a trade with caution banner on his name???? wtf is that.

HE STOLE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FROM PEOPLE. DO NOT PROCEED WITH CAUTION, DO NOT PROCEED AT ALL!

This is honestly ridiculous. Makes you equally suspicious to act as if this isn't exactly what it is.

Once again there is not much more that can be done. We get that he took thousands of dollars. We can clearly read that in the dispute. We do not control users money on this website so we can not refund you. This website is only a forum to allow users to handle transactions amongst themselves. We step in to try and resolve issues to the best of our abilities. I don't get paid to do this. The only reason he is not banned is so that the users scammed can talk to him on-site to come to a solution to solve this issue. No where did I say "oh **** happens". I get that you are mad just as the others are. However, attacking the staff that are trying to resolve your issue and get your money back simply isn't going to make this any better.

 

[Romolus]

Frankly the way this is being handled I can't imagine that will do much good. The website isn't taking responsibility or reimbursing the people ripped off, even though the website approves his service. Hes lied over and over, hasn't repaid anyone. Said he did.

He's a scam you guys are going to lose a lot of credibility if you don't figure this out. He's already scammed tens of thousands of dollars from your visitors . I for one won't let this go quietly.

We are not responsible for reimbursement nor for the deals that happen on our website and it’s even clearly stated in our Terms of Service that unless trade guardian was used we won’t issue a compensation, but even then it would be limited to 100$ max. in total. Imagine if the admin would to refund every single scammed person out of his own pockets where this would lead to. Probably to the closure of the website.

And if you don’t want to give Italy the chance to owe up to his mistakes then there is little we can do. We can only investigate the cases and push the people who wrongfully took money to compensate their victims. After all we aren’t law enforcements nor Interpol.

 

[deraaz]

I might as well say, Imagine everyone was a trade guardian and then no body would trust them. But they aren't. And no one is saying out of their own pockets. You verified his identification did you not? You can make real criminal charges for what hes done here.

He was a selected person of high reputation, or at least that is how it seemed. This isn't a normal scam. He used his privilege from the website , which no one else has, to execute this scam.

So please don't give me a blanket response as if I and others don't understand how the ****in world spins. The issue must be handled as an exception, because it is. My fight isn't with you moderators. I'm just making sure people on this website have a very clear understanding he is scamming people as we speak. And you guys have not labeled him as such. If you think this is keeping him honest, it's not. It's keeping him able to continue the scam until he exits.

This is a lawful matter.

 

[Adoxia]

I might as well say, Imagine everyone was a trade guardian and then no body would trust them. But they aren't. And no one is saying out of their own pockets. You verified his identification did you not? You can make real criminal charges for what hes done here.

He was a selected person of high reputation, or at least that is how it seemed. This isn't a normal scam. He used his privilege from the website , which no one else has, to execute this scam.

So please don't give me a blanket response as if I and others don't understand how the ****in world spins. The issue must be handled as an exception, because it is. My fight isn't with you moderators. I'm just making sure people on this website have a very clear understanding he is scamming people as we speak. And you guys have not labeled him as such. If you think this is keeping him honest, it's not. It's keeping him able to continue the scam until he exits.

This is a lawful matter.

I do not have legal matters with the website so from a legal matter you would have to speak to an admin, as far as him being active on this website as I stated it is only to be able to contact users that he needs to resolve issues with, if we simply banned him we would not be able to see if he is actively trying to resolve the issues or not and it would just take way longer then it needs to. This is a huge mess of a situation, and I get it being scammed out of huge amounts of money is a huge issue. We are doing everything we can to get your money back to you guys. Go to the dispute & post the evidence showing you have bought from him. (Payment/Chat logs).

 

[Adoxia]

As for the profile warning I have updated it.

 

[ChrisPTY507]

I just saw the entire thread. And I’m just gonna say that the degree of favoritism to that guy coming from the mods is quite astonishing, I get that they side with him because he most likely have made profit for this website but that makes the whole forum being at risk of being sued if Italy Scams the wrong person. I’m Just gonna keep watching this drama from afar. Hes

 

[ChrisPTY507]

I might as well say, Imagine everyone was a trade guardian and then no body would trust them. But they aren't. And no one is saying out of their own pockets. You verified his identification did you not? You can make real criminal charges for what hes done here.

He was a selected person of high reputation, or at least that is how it seemed. This isn't a normal scam. He used his privilege from the website , which no one else has, to execute this scam.

So please don't give me a blanket response as if I and others don't understand how the ****in world spins. The issue must be handled as an exception, because it is. My fight isn't with you moderators. I'm just making sure people on this website have a very clear understanding he is scamming people as we speak. And you guys have not labeled him as such. If you think this is keeping him honest, it's not. It's keeping him able to continue the scam until he exits.

This is a lawful matter.

Yeah as I have said before, the admins of this site seems to be waiting to mess with the wrong customer in order to be sued and only then will they going to ban the scammer. I’ve been following this site for a while and in the majority of times the disputes get handled well but in this one the favoritism are very noted.

 

[ITALY]

I already refunded more than 7000$+, proving I was not going to exit scam ever.
Take care. @P1trsavanger

 

[P1trsavanger]

Welcome back.

 

[Sakura]

We are not responsible for reimbursement nor for the deals that happen on our website and it’s even clearly stated in our Terms of Service that unless trade guardian was used we won’t issue a compensation, but even then it would be limited to 100$ max. in total. Imagine if the admin would to refund every single scammed person out of his own pockets where this would lead to. Probably to the closure of the website.

And if you don’t want to give Italy the chance to owe up to his mistakes then there is little we can do. We can only investigate the cases and push the people who wrongfully took money to compensate their victims. After all we aren’t law enforcements nor Interpol.

Lol - Mike makes a killing on this site, it's not reasonable to expect him to refund people in disputes - that's insane.

But he could 100% do it and shrug it off as it wouldn't even be 1% of the profit of the site.