good alternatives to paypal ? account selling against paypal policy?

[SaiyajinShopEPIC]

i know 99% of buyers only use paypal but im sick of it.​

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Skrill/wise/crypto/payoneer/paysend/revolut/perfect money/bank trasnfer​

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I dont have gpay.venmo,zelle etc in my country​

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But lets be honest ill have to get another paypal since things wont change ​

Note that i never use it for anything else than selling on this website mostly mobile games accounts, i did invoices and friends and family , i tried to do friends and family for 20$+ accounts and did goods for the cheaper stuff since they can be refunded (aka chargeback).​

And i woke up this morning out of a sudeen with see pictures below.​

Funny im not surprised consider even epic got their account banned and if u google their trust pilot its that 1* with 19k reviews everyday u see people complain they have their money frozen by paypal at least itll be nice if they would give you a reason or warning etc.​

If u have some other payment method suggestions please let me know thx!​

 

[Romolus]

It's an unfortunate situation that more and more sellers find themselves trapped in, who have sold here or elsewhere over the years. Admittedly PayPal has gotten with each passing year more scrupulous, when it comes to their business practices towards their longer term sellers or buyers. To the point that they even screwed over eBay, who are in the process of dumping them as a payment method all together. Which is funny, if you consider it was eBay back in the early 2000s that kick started this tiny company to fame. PayPal’s own leniency to investigate cases properly has caused many people to loose out on money double at times. Most of which could have been avoided with forcing people to file a police report and then get the information about the legitimacy from there.

As for other payment methods I think you will be very well off with Skrill in most instances. I don’t think it's too much to ask from buyers to sign up, create an account and fill out their bank details/credit card details.

 

[Anime]

I'd say start accepting crypto, and only accept Paypal from very trustworthy users, Litecoin has very low fees right now.

 

[Ahri]

Banned - Scammer - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/ahri-scammer.2195904/

I am using transferwise / wise, almost 80% user from wise that from paypal are sellers

reasons :
1. you don't need face chargeback like on paypal
2. no more fee when withdrawing because buyer will pay the fee when they pay to your bank account directly
3. 80% transactions only need 5 mins to 1 hours for your money arrive on your bank account (some case longer and most case happen when holiday which bank close their international transaction)

cons :
1. some country not have yet supported with their local bank
2. some bank may need take several days to complete the transaction which most of case buyer will cancel because cannot wait so long

 

[SonGokuYoutube]

That's why I quit selling
Buyer only want to pay with paypal..

 

[Dynestic]

Banned - illegal activity - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/false-feedback.2051752/

Yeah the chargebacks are very annoyingly...
I try to avoid PayPal myself and only accept a payment through F & F. Crypto is as well a great option.

 

[Ahri]

Banned - Scammer - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/ahri-scammer.2195904/

Yeah the chargebacks are very annoyingly...
I try to avoid PayPal myself and only accept a payment through F & F. Crypto is as well a great option.

people using chargeback on paypal for f&f

if you using good & service you only need to claim dispute you don't receive the item, because digital goods / account is intangible without delivery to buyer address, which is no need chargeback and will win the dispute

meanwhile crypto also not safe because if buyer using 3rd party to purchase crypto to send to your wallet using their credit card, it's also can be chargebacked

the only way to not have chargeback is payment using bank transfer, which like paysion that epicnpc website use

or transferwise/wise that I use, payment received to our bank and it's not be able to chargeback because buyer send it using their bank account too, not using credit card

 

[doomedtofail]

Trade with repped legit sellers/buyers on paypal. zero payment disputes in 2 years.

 

[Black Panther]

Nobody likes PayPal. There are tons of alternatives to them. Some of the ones suggested in this thread already are solid.

 

[Ahri]

Banned - Scammer - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/ahri-scammer.2195904/

try avoid paypal, after 180 days, they took all balances, I just finish the 180 days and got 0 balance on my paypal account

it's different from the past, where after 180 days, they will ask your bank account and send your balance to your bank account

after the new regulation, they will charge all your balance that freezed

receiving friend/family method payment when you are selling something is againts the paypal rules, so yeah if you got caught or fcked up with it when you try dispute againts your buyer that chargeback you, prepare to lose everything

 

[Anime]

Paypal just straight out closed my super old account a week ago, no recent transactions, no chargebacks, no whatever. I'm not even gonna bother making a new one, luckily my account was empty at that time.

 

[SaiyajinShopEPIC]

moved tobusiness account and all pp payment are via website so far is good but i do use alternative payments like wise skrill revolut binance etc

 

[SaiyajinShopEPIC]

you can open a business as sole proprietor you dont have to registry a business , if your personal account got banned by selling product thats a alternative

 

[SaiyajinShopEPIC]

and i advice you to setup a basic eccomerce website to accept payments it only costs 5$ a month hosting

 

[EpicSenpai]

I still take Paypal but yeah no denying it's absolute garbage, especially the added fees and custom conversion rates that are a literal rip-off from Paypal itself.

I always tell my customers that I prefer Wise or Crypto, Revolut is another option as well.

 

[kugogizo]

and i advice you to setup a basic eccomerce website to accept payments it only costs 5$ a month hosting

Why is this any better?

What are you doing differently?

I am using transferwise / wise, almost 80% user from wise that from paypal are sellers
reasons :
3. 80% transactions only need 5 mins to 1 hours for your money arrive on your bank account (some case longer and most case happen when holiday which bank close their international transaction)

How do you accept payments so fast with wise? do they send through their bank or using something else such as wise/google pay?

Bank transfers usually take 1-2 days

I don't think many buyers are using wise.

I personally think that it would be great if most buyers were using skrill since it's the platform that accepts most "bad" stuff however only europeans seem to use this. I wonder if I should start forcing it to my customers.

 

[Ahri]

Banned - Scammer - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/ahri-scammer.2195904/

Why is this any better?

What are you doing differently?

with website as payment gateway, you can win dispute againts your buyer since you know their ip address when they checkout, it will help you win the dispute if the buyer not using chargeback

if buyer use credit card and chargeback from their bank, you will still lose the money

How do you accept payments so fast with wise? do they send through their bank or using something else such as wise/google pay?

Bank transfers usually take 1-2 days

I don't think many buyers are using wise.

I personally think that it would be great if most buyers were using skrill since it's the platform that accepts most "bad" stuff however only europeans seem to use this. I wonder if I should start forcing it to my customers.

it complete within few minutes as long the buyer already verified, because the bank transfer happen on wise is not between buyer and seller, but between buyer and wise,

example : if you are using bank "A" and your buyer using bank "B", your buyer will transfer from their bank "B" to wise bank "B" too, once wise verified the money received, they will use their bank "A" to transfer the amount to your bank "A"

ofcourse in some case where the bank is close because public holiday or offline due of maintenance, the transfer will not complete or need to wait, example if in my country, wise using Bank Permata to transfer to any bank in Indonesia, but Bank Permata will offline from 00:00 to 05:00 GMT+7, so any payment that happen on that time, will be complete after 05:00

so far I have more than 300++ transactions using wise and not even once got scammed or have any issue like dispute or chargeback

you will lose your skrill account if they know you selling game account because it's violate their terms, I think this issue happen a lot in 2014? that's why very few people using skrill these days to sell digital goods

 

[kugogizo]

it complete within few minutes as long the buyer already verified, because the bank transfer happen on wise is not between buyer and seller, but between buyer and wise,

example : if you are using bank "A" and your buyer using bank "B", your buyer will transfer from their bank "B" to wise bank "B" too, once wise verified the money received, they will use their bank "A" to transfer the amount to your bank "A"

ofcourse in some case where the bank is close because public holiday or offline due of maintenance, the transfer will not complete or need to wait, example if in my country, wise using Bank Permata to transfer to any bank in Indonesia, but Bank Permata will offline from 00:00 to 05:00 GMT+7, so any payment that happen on that time, will be complete after 05:00

Yeah but still they need to use wise, I don't think many buyers do this, besides is wise really safe?

why is it different than paypal or skrill?

Is it legal to sell rmt goods throught it?

I don't think a wise to wise transfer is any different than paypal to paypal. Ok it might be safer for chargebacks but still what if they randomly ban your account?

I wonder if it's possible to shut down the rmt industry by denying all payment methods we can use. There are many on the runescape market who only accept crypto payments but what can you really pay with it, you still have to transfer it to the coinbase wallet and it takes too long to get the money, buyers can't wait so much. Not many buyers can use crypto.

I personally think that an option is accepting credit card payments similar to stripe but stripe doesn't allow rmt either, some banks in my country offer payment links but you have to register your business to get that.

 

[Ahri]

Banned - Scammer - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/ahri-scammer.2195904/

Yeah but still they need to use wise, I don't think many buyers do this, besides is wise really safe?

why is it different than paypal or skrill?

read here for more details about wise, it already pinned by moderator : https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/wise-ex-transferwise-payment-guide-information.2086694/

the main important on wise that different from other payment :
1. if you not verified, you cannot send payment using it, so scammer won't bother to wasting time to verify their real identity, because if they use stolen credit card or debit card, they will be tracked or can't even complete the verification
2. money that already completed, cannot be dispute or chargeback

as seller it will be far safer to receive payment using wise

meanwhile for buyer, the most important is paying using wise directly to seller bank account, why?
1. seller cannot receive the payment if they fake the full name on the bank account even if it's missing one letter
2. with full name of seller and country information, it will help buyer to report the scammer in their country, meanwhile on paypal you can just use fake name on business account and email address, it's very easy to change business name and paypal email address that appear on paypal to received payment

Is it legal to sell rmt goods throught it?

I don't think a wise to wise transfer is any different than paypal to paypal. Ok it might be safer for chargebacks but still what if they randomly ban your account?

I wonder if it's possible to shut down the rmt industry by denying all payment methods we can use. There are many on the runescape market who only accept crypto payments but what can you really pay with it, you still have to transfer it to the coinbase wallet and it takes too long to get the money, buyers can't wait so much. Not many buyers can use crypto.

regarding RMT, the legality is not on paypal or skrill or wise, but on the game company itself, paypal policy that we discuss on this thread is mostly about seller accept payment using friend/family, because it's violate paypal terms, if you selling something, you cannot use friend/family

seller that got dispute or chargeback on paypal definitely try fight back the scammer and disclose that they already give the scammer account or item or gold, and there you got caught by paypal use friend/family payment for your business

meanwhile on skrill it because they don't accept digital goods at all because leading to lot of scam and dispute

so there is no randomly ban because digital goods, it's all happen because buyer/seller disclose it to them on dispute, and they take action after that

and if you are seller, you don't need to have wise account, you only need provide your bank account to receive the payment if the payment not above $1k, where there will be more procedure and you need have wise account to got it

I personally think that an option is accepting credit card payments similar to stripe but stripe doesn't allow rmt either, some banks in my country offer payment links but you have to register your business to get that.

if what you want only for accept payment using credit card, you can just follow the advise of using website, since you can get payment directly from the buyer using credit card to your paypal without need them to have paypal account

 

[kugogizo]

regarding RMT, the legality is not on paypal or skrill or wise, but on the game company itself, paypal policy that we discuss on this thread is mostly about seller accept payment using friend/family, because it's violate paypal terms, if you selling something, you cannot use friend/family

seller that got dispute or chargeback on paypal definitely try fight back the scammer and disclose that they already give the scammer account or item or gold, and there you got caught by paypal use friend/family payment for your business

That's really interesting, I was using friends and family in order to avoid disputes, I thought I was smart, I didn't know it could lead to this. This is terrible. It seems skrill is not an option either. Goods and services is a time bomb, they can dispute or chargeback and you are done for. You can lose all your profits. I guess I'm lucky.

I will experiment with wise.

I could also use a personal crypto wallet, how can they chargeback that? I won't though because I won't be able to pay anyone.

One question

Paypal allows you to create invoices with terms and conditions, you can state on your terms that under any circumstance you don't refund the buyer. Can this work on a dispute or chargeback?

It might be possible to force the buyer to state on a comment or something that he received the goods or something like this.

I don't think chargebacks are so easy, the banks listen to paypal and take their decisions, it's not an automatic refund.

 

[Ahri]

Banned - Scammer - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/ahri-scammer.2195904/

That's really interesting, I was using friends and family in order to avoid disputes, I thought I was smart, I didn't know it could lead to this. This is terrible. It seems skrill is not an option either. Goods and services is a time bomb, they can dispute or chargeback and you are done for. You can lose all your profits. I guess I'm lucky.

that's why the original post said to use website, it will help your dispute on paypal for goods and service, they only can win if they chargeback, meanwhile people chargeback will definitely big amount, no one will wasting chargeback 20$ or 30$ amount, because chargeback will disable your current credit card and you need print new one, meanwhile the balance that already used on the chargeback will need wait 90 days before it return to them

and as long you are not big business, where you got 20++ f&f on your paypal, you should be safe, paypal will find it weird since you got big volume of transaction but all of them f&f

I will experiment with wise.

I could also use a personal crypto wallet, how can they chargeback that? I won't though because I won't be able to pay anyone.

if you don't have daily customer, you can just keep receive paypal f&f as payment but below certain amount

if it's reach certain threshold that you don't want got disputed or chargeback on paypal, you can use wise as your payment method, example on my side, I accept paypal payment below 20$, and use g&s since I have lot of transaction in a day, so even if got dispute on it, I will just need to report them and got them banned and blacklisted on this site, but since I mark up the price for paypal, most of my customer choose to use wise payment

One question

Paypal allows you to create invoices with terms and conditions, you can state on your terms that under any circumstance you don't refund the buyer. Can this work on a dispute or chargeback?

I don't think chargebacks are so easy, the banks listen to paypal and take their decisions, it's not an automatic refund.

as long it's intangible items, paypal will not give you seller protection or help you with the case

yes chargeback not easy, that's why if you go to dispute subforum on this site, you will see the amount of chargeback value will be at least 200$++

it will disable your current credit card, and the chargeback money will need to wait 90 days before return to your credit card limit

 

[kugogizo]

with website as payment gateway, you can win dispute againts your buyer since you know their ip address when they checkout, it will help you win the dispute if the buyer not using chargeback

So, if I know their ip during checkout does the item become tangible then?

Why do I have seller protection with it?

I mean if he is sending me money then it's already a proof that I'm getting paid for something. The website just changes the way I'm getting paid, the ip can be proof of what the buyer bought but you can do the same with invoices.

 

[Ahri]

Banned - Scammer - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/ahri-scammer.2195904/

So, if I know their ip during checkout does the item become tangible then?

Why do I have seller protection with it?

no, you not have seller protection with it, but if the buyer open normal dispute, claiming if they don't recognize the purchase

with the ip you can provide the information for paypal, they will check if the dispute true or not by checking the ip address you provided with the ip address that usually buyer use to login on the paypal

if the paypal account not stolen, and the original owner use it, the ip address you provide as evidence will be matches with one of ip address on paypal login log

meanwhile if the dispute about the buyer never receive the items, you can provide the proof since there will be have chat log between you on your website, and with website credential you also proving yourself to paypal that you are legit seller since you can provide them transaction history on your paypal with other buyer that complete transaction with you on the site

note : all of this above only for goods/service payment since normal dispute only available for normal payment, friend/family payment only can be chargeback and not possible to dispute
and if they do chargeback, you will still lose your money 100% because the chargeback is done by the bank, not by paypal

you can try check this one, he also use website for paypal payment, he almost won all the cases of the dispute : https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/list-of-scammer-2022-updated.2137237/

 

[kugogizo]

Any idea how much it costs to set such site entirely for this purpose and how it would like?

Does anyone have one to show?

 

[Ahri]

Banned - Scammer - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/ahri-scammer.2195904/

hard to say about the cost because it will depend on your need and what you sell actually

for cheapest one I believe you just need pay 1 year for your website domain and a hosting
as the original poster said, you can pay $5 for a hosting monthly

meanwhile for domain the price range will depend on what you will use .com/.org/.xyz/.net

estimated for 1 year domain and 1 month hosting will cost you $15, may cheaper if you find your local hosting site, example in my country you can buy free domain .id for 2 year, but you need provide identity card etc. and the hosting will be free with limited bandwith, if you can find something like this, your cost will be cheaper

and usually if you pay for 2 years / 3 years hosting you will got free 1 year domain which is, it will cost you around $50 to $100 for 2 years to 3 years hosting

and you can just install wordpress and setup using theme that suit your product

and then upgrade your paypal account to business account, and there will be new feature for business account to setup paypal payment on your website, you just need follow it

if you don't understand how to setup the website you need additional cost, maybe the cheapest one around 10$? you can find someone to help you setup on fiverr

and if you provide boosting or other service product with quite expensive, I believe you need to design your website to look good instead of generic theme website, which is will cost you another extra if you need pay graphic designer or web designer for you




regarding how it like, you can just go to this site homepage, and scroll down a bit and you will see trending subforum, you can just check them one by one and see the sticky post on the top of subforum

almost all of them will have website to run for the same purpose

 

[kugogizo]

if you don't have daily customer, you can just keep receive paypal f&f as payment but below certain amount

if it's reach certain threshold that you don't want got disputed or chargeback on paypal, you can use wise as your payment method, example on my side, I accept paypal payment below 20$, and use g&s since I have lot of transaction in a day, so even if got dispute on it, I will just need to report them and got them banned and blacklisted on this site, but since I mark up the price for paypal, most of my customer choose to use wise payment

While I like your logic, there are many who want to pay a "sizeable" amount of money with paypal only and if you refuse all of them then you will potentially lose tons of money. There are many people who pay 40-70$ or even 100$+ and don't want to use wise or crypto, you can't deny all of them. Well, you could say that the profits you can make from them can be lost on a single chargeback or dispute so it turns into a game of probability of how often you face a scammer.

So my conclusion is

Choice 1: If you think that the probability is on your side then you use goods and services and accept the gamble, in this scenario you believe that you will rarely face a scammer so your losses from there won't affect you much and you will still profit

Choice 2: You just force wise or crypto to your customers no matter what unless the amount is as small as you said (20$) because you think the probability to face a scammer is high, in this scenario you will lose money from average orders if they were legit

Not sure which choice is better. I currently don't plan to build a website so I have to choose one of the above. My confidence has dropped after this. I don't want to lose my paypal.

Edit: I could easily accept 20-30$ orders as goods and services on paypal because even if they scam it will barely hurt and I doubt many will bother with a dispute for this, they will still have to wait a lot to get them back.

 

[Ahri]

Banned - Scammer - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/ahri-scammer.2195904/

fortunately most people that purchase with big amount willing to go for wise,

first because they trust my feedback and services

second is after I show the rate and fee on wise that far lower than paypal if sending on big amount

sending $800 using wise only charge $6

meanwhile on paypal charge $28

and if you go through the banned scammer or ask the moderator around, you will found lot of reputable user with several hundreds positive feedback and even former mods do scam and almost 80% using paypal and the rest is crypto,

in the end with paypal, you only can get name and email, meanwhile on wise if you are buyer, you know the scammer full name, bank account number, name of bank and country where he come, easier to report and blacklist base on that information

and rather wasting time on losing time to handle the scam, also wasting money and also lose your account

it's better just wait to find another buyer that willing to use wise, especially if you are selling valuable thing, if it's worth a lot, that's won't be hard to sell since market demand

and if you often got dispute on paypal, it will lower your credential and when people send you payment it become on hold 24 hours

 

[Wunderkind]

Banned - Banned until resolved - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/wunderkind-scam-of-755.2849834/

Crypto, Skrill, Wise are all good alternatives.