account banned because seller used cheats before sale

[aeiouxz]

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

Trade Guardian Dispute

Purchase Date: 01 January 2019
Date the problem began: 16 January 2019
Method of Contact Used (chat program): EpicNPC chat room and discord
Instant Messenger username of the person you're accusing: user EpicNPC username is NotMyIngameName23232
Your Instant Messenger ID: I do not have Instant Messenger ID. My EpicNPC is aeiouxz

Other information:
All conversation between me and seller was done through EpicNPC. The account was delivered without problems until yesterday, when the account was banned for actions done before I gained the account. More information is listed below. I tried to contact the seller for refund, we spoke about it, he said he doesn't have all money and today he deleted his discord so that he can get away with everything and show no proof of the conversation.

DISPUTE Information
######################
Link of transaction thread (URL, Epicnpc thread): https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/272-282-312-mystic-full-pen-armor-pegasus.1402215/
Approximate value of property: $5584 USD
Was Trade Guardian used? YES
If yes, what is the Trade Guardian ID? #8530

What is the dispute about?
I was sold an account which got banned for using illegal 3rd party software to gain in-game advantage before I bought the account. I used the account 2 weeks, then it got banned yesterday for having used illegal 3rd party software in October-November 2018. I did not own the account during that time.
There was a banwave and my account got banned with it: https://community.blackdesertonline.../banwave-mischievous-and-un-fortunate.373421/ for an event that took place in October 2018: https://www.blackdesertonline.com/news/view/1948
It is known that KAKAO Games bans accounts for actions that happened weeks/months before and they never ban people instantly.

Other details / notes: I have contacted the KAKAO Games support 7 times so far trying to appeal the suspensions, but it was rejected for the reason of having used 3rd party programs.
I tried contacting the seller on discord. Yesterday he told me to contact support and I did. After that he said he only has less than 50% of the money and he will try to pay me back. Today he deleted his discord account so I have no proof of what he said. I sent proof that he deleted his discord using a ticket because I do not think it is correct to share such information with public: https://epicnpc.freshdesk.com/helpdesk/tickets/62468
PS: when you delete discord all your messages are gone so if I make screenshots of my discord it will look like I am talking by myself.
Anyway, in that conversation he did nothing useful. He just told me to open support ticket, I did that, nothing happened and the account is still banned. Today I asked seller for refund and he deleted his discord.

Proof
I bought the account from the seller and everything was done through epicNPC website. All conversations and everything are in my epicNPC inbox.
You can see the account ID that he gave me for the game matches the one from the video with the permanent account suspension proof.
Today I asked the seller for refund on discord. He then deleted his discord. Then I asked him on epicNPC for refund and he did not reply.

I have recorded a video of me trying to login using the credentials given for this account. The video shows that the account was suspended and the response from the staff. Since it contains the email of the seller, I cannot make it public here.
However, the video can be seen in the epicNPC ticket https://epicnpc.freshdesk.com/helpdesk/tickets/62468
I can give the login credentials to an admin or record as many videos as you want to show how the account is permanently suspended.

Chat Log Screenshots (make sure username is visible, not display username): all the conversations prior to the ban are in my epicNPC inbox. Everything went fine until the account got banned so I don't know what a chat history could help. The seller deleted his discord after I contacted him to tell him about the ban and ask for the money back.
Payment Screenshots (make sure the accused email is visible): Payment was done using tradeguardian and then the seller withdrew the money to PayPal and then to his bank account.
Other proof: All proof of my account getting banned was sent to staff in ticket https://epicnpc.freshdesk.com/helpdesk/tickets/62468

I cannot believe that in 2019 people can hack, cheat and gain a lot of value in their accounts, sell them for a lot of money and then get away with all the money ...
Since the account cannot be restored, I would like a refund on the amount that I paid. After that I can give back the login credentials of the account so that the seller can try to recover his account if he still wants.
The account is much more valuable than when I bought it. I spent 300 EURO on it for virtual goods (KAKAO CASH) and made 3 very valuable items that should raise its value by at least 15-20%.
I would like EpicNPC to help me with a refund on the amount paid. I hope EpicNPC can claim back the money sent to the user via PayPal and refund me via either Bitcoin (how I paid) or via PayPal.

 

[EpicNPC CM]

@NotMyIngameName23232 notified

 

[EpicNPC CM]

@NotMyIngameName23232 ban in 24 hrs

 

[NotMyIngameName23232]

Banned - scam - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/account-banned-because-seller-used-cheats-before-sale.1412346/

Hi @EpicNPC CM
I've sent you a private message, in the case you did not get a notification about it.
If you could reply there.
Thanks.
Regards

 

[aeiouxz]

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

@NotMyIngameName23232 I wonder what you could possibly say to save your skin in this situation and why you cannot post information here like I did? I only contacted the CM to sent him proof that contained your name, because I figured that you deserve your privacy. But your attitude makes me think twice about that.

I think you are trying to stagnate this dispute and buy yourself time until you will withdraw all money and run away with them.

You sold me an account that got banned in only 2 weeks, because you botted on it. If you are not guilty, you can refund me and I will give you access to the account back so you can restore it, but the fact that you deleted your discord, that you refuse to respond to my messages only confirms that you want to buy yourself time and you want to scam. So stop delaying this and please give me my money back.

It is in your best interest to not ignore me, to not delete me from discord and to simply refund me my money. I thought you are a reasonable person, not some kid that deletes his discord and hope to run away with my money.
You are young, I am sure you don't want to regret this decision for the rest of your life. Theft and scamming are punishable actions and the fact that the amount is very big only makes it worse for you.

 

[EpicNPC CM]

To clarify the accounts were purchased on Jan 1st and you received the ban email on the 8th? @aeiouxz

 

[aeiouxz]

To clarify the accounts were purchased on Jan 1st and you received the ban email on the 8th? @aeiouxz

I received the account on 01 January 2019
I then received an email on 16th January 2019 that the account was permanently suspended and in the same day (16th January) the GM posted that 84 accounts were banned for exploits done in the past (before I bought the account the seller exploited/botted).
I have sent all proof to you on private message, please check it because it contains the name/email of the seller and I don't want to divulge that info publicly here.

The GM mentioned in the banwave page that 84 accounts (including the one that I bought) were banned for using 3rd party programs during an event which occurred on October-November 2018: https://community.blackdesertonline.../banwave-mischievous-and-un-fortunate.373421/

So @NotMyIngameName23232 botted on his account before I bought it, boosted the account value and then decided to sell it and now my account is forever unusable and my money is lost unless you can help me with the refund.
In this game, Black Desert Online, there are no instant bans if you use good bots. All bans are investigated carefully by the GM and given at least 1-2 months later after violating the game terms, but once they are given they cannot be undone.

If this goes unpunished, it will just encourage players to use bots to boost account value, then to sell their accounts and then buyers will automatically lose their accounts in just a few weeks after paying a large amount of money for them. I am sure this was the plan of @NotMyIngameName23232 from beginning ... to use bot to boost account value, then get rid of the account very fast and then let the buyer deal with the permanent suspension. Problem with Black Desert Online is that if you are banned, they never remove ban.

 

[aeiouxz]

@EpicNPC CM please don't forget that I lost a very large amount due to this scammer.
I lost 5584$ (five thousand) and access to the game account and another 300 EURO that I spent on virtual cash for this account, because this guy scammed me and sold me an account that he knew it was going to get banned because he used 3rd party illegal programs to boost account value. I bought this account to enjoy for years, not just 2 weeks.

 

[aeiouxz]

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

@NotMyIngameName23232 why did you block me from discord when I asked you for my money back? Why are you not posting any messages in this dispute? I spent 5584$ on an account, then 300 EURO on KAKAO CASH, I hope that you and the CM understand that I would do nothing to risk this account, but you botted on it before I bought it and made it get banned and now I have no account, no money, no KAKAO CASH, nothing. You even blocked me from discord, like some thief that tries to run away with the money. Do I need to also contact KAKAO games support and tell them how you are selling accounts and have them trace your accounts and ban all of them? Or should I post my story on reddit? Tell me, because I want my money back. I didn't even get to enjoy the account well and I got banned because of your actions. Now I am a desperate man who lost everything because of you ... money, account, kakao cash.

Please explain why you blocked me from discord, why you say nothing and why you refuse to refund me.

 

[EpicNPC CM]

Only staff can view this content.

 

[EpicNPC CM]

@aeiouxz Please take a video of all the support tickets on the account and post it here or send it to me via PM

 

[aeiouxz]

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

I saw what @NotMyIngameName23232 said (I received an email with his message before you've hidden it).

I am very dissapointed to read his comments and his opinion about me. He says that I am the kind of guy that wants to pay with real money for things and in his opinion because I spend real money on a game, I am a cheater.
No, @NotMyIngameName23232 I am not a cheater. I did not used 3rd party programs to cheat and then sell accounts that get banned. That is what cheating is.

WHY WOULD I SPEND 5000 EURO to get an account banned in just 2 weeks? What would I gain from getting the account banned in 2 weeks? I paid 5000 EURO for the account and on discord the seller said that he had to pay 500 EURO taxes for conversion and for withdrawing the money so I even agreed to a refund of 4500 EURO. Why would I agree to lose 1100 EURO in 2 weeks (600 EURO on KAKAO cash items and 500 EURO on the taxes of the seller)? He blocked me on discord, so I cannot show any proof. I was as reasonable as I could be, but he blocked me and I had to open a dispute here.

I wanted to use this account for a long time. I am very sad because it got banned. Now I just want to recover my money. Since he blocked me from discord and started to call me a cheater, I cannot show understanding, so I'd like a complete refund because I wasted a lot of time already.

I had no interest to risk 5000 EURO to gain almost nothing in just 2 weeks. You may think that a guy who spends 5000 EURO on an account is stupid or a cheater, but we all have hobbies and everyone's enjoyment is subjective. Some people spend thousands of euros on SKI equipment, on cars, on women. I like video games, especially Black Desert game so I decided to spend my "hobby fund" on an account that had many end-game items that I would never need to spend more money or time on other things related to this game and I can enjoy the end-game content of it. I just wanted to enjoy end-game content and this account had it all. No, I am not stupid, I am just a person with a hobby that tried to play this game for more than 1 year and could not the gear that this account had. So I decided to buy an account with endgame gear. This account had a lot of endgame gear and items and it was simply perfect for me. That is why I even agreed to the price that he asked from me. I figured that I buy this account, enjoy the game for the next couple of years, but my plan was ruined in just 2 weeks because I got banned in a ban event that punished people for actions that they did in 2018.

He accused me of things that have nothing to do with the reason why the account got banned.

The account was banned for using 3rd party programs, not for "buying payouts and boosting services". I did not buy any payouts or boosting services and even if I had, those are not bannable offenses.
You can search on blackdesertonline.com forum to see that many people complain that real money trading is not banned even today on 23/01/2019. My point is just to say that nobody ever got banned for buying payouts or doing account sharing, but everyone who uses 3rd party programs is banned. There are people that are level 64 in this game. To get to lvl 64 you have to do account sharing, there is no other way and they are not banned.
All the permanent suspensions in black desert online don't come over night. The GM carefully inspects the accounts before they ban them. Ban waves are done for actions that happened months before the ban wave.

My account was banned for using 3rd party programs during an event that took place in 2018 (the event related to this banwave: https://community.blackdesertonline...s-and-un-fortunate.373421/page-6#post-1867801 )
The moment the CM posted that topic on forum was the moment when my account was banned, exactly after maintenance ended.

The account has 15-20% more value because I managed to buy 2x PEN items for a good preorder price after selling some of the account items and because I got lucky with some enhancing and made around 5bil profit. Nothing great, but enough to boost value. The account had a few bil of silver when I bought it, so I sold many of the items, started to enchant, I made a few billions more profit and bought 2x PEN items. I also bought KAKAO CASH on the account for 600 EURO. That's around 15-20% more value (the PEN items and the 600 EURO pearls).

I did not buy any payouts on this account. Why would I do that when I had around 20,000,000,000 silver after selling some of the items from the account?
This account was absolutely perfect, it had everything that I needed, except KAKAO CASH, so I bought that and nothing more.

I have proof (can sent on private) that I bought 6x KAKAO CASH packages worth 100 EURO each after I got the account. I can send that proof in private to the EpicNPC CM if needed.

I have made video and backup of all my epicNPC conversations with @NotMyIngameName23232
I have requested to him repeatedly to unblock me on discord so that we can discuss like reasonable people. He refuses to do so and says that I got banned for buying silver payouts or for account sharing. I didn't do that.

Now he talks about reporting me to authorities, after he scammed me of 5000 EURO. This is like WTF?!

PS: @NotMyIngameName23232 talks about breaking the Terms of Service, but he already broke the Terms of Service when he posted his account on epicNPC.
He broke these terms: https://gyazo.com/b18e1f04d78064d379b8f0fd560bd67d

Selling accounts in black desert online is prohibited, but I never heard of anybody to get banned for it, so I don't know if it is bannable, but he should not accuse me of breaking the ToS, because he is not a saint.

 

[EpicNPC]

The ban was issued the same day this post was made. I do not believe this is a coincidence.
https://community.blackdesertonline.../banwave-mischievous-and-un-fortunate.373421/

I also find it very hard to believe someone would pay $5000+ for an account and immediately start using 3rd party scripts.

Finally, I find it hard to believe that the very first violation on an account would result in a immediate and permanent ban. I'm not familiar with BDO policies, but most games give you a warning or temporary suspension for the first violation, not a permanent ban.

I'm sorry, I'm inclined to side with the buyer based on common sense. The seller will be responsible for a full refund as it appears they might have know the account could be banned due to the exploits in Oct/Nov and sold it before that happened.

 

[NoOne1995]

The ban was issued the same day this post was made. I do not believe this is a coincidence.
https://community.blackdesertonline.../banwave-mischievous-and-un-fortunate.373421/

I also find it very hard to believe someone would pay $5000+ for an account and immediately start using 3rd party scripts.

Finally, I find it hard to believe that the very first violation on an account would result in a immediate and permanent ban. I'm not familiar with BDO policies, but most games give you a warning or temporary suspension for the first violation, not a permanent ban.

I'm sorry, I'm inclined to side with the buyer based on common sense. The seller will be responsible for a full refund as it appears they might have know the account could be banned due to the exploits in Oct/Nov and sold it before that happened.

They are very harsh when it comes to ban, they dont usually gives warning for cheating but permanent ban immediatly, it happened to me to get a permanent ban for the use of a marketplace bot without any warning and it was my first violention, luckily enough, i managed to lift the ban, but it was a nightmare
maybe the buyer can always attempt a unban explaining the situation, they tend to make some nice move if you bring a lot of money monthly or if you are a streamer ( it has been proven many times that whale get a better support experience than normal player )

 

[EpicNPC]

maybe the buyer can always attempt a unban explaining the situation

The buyer opened 4 support tickets for the issue with multiple replies. BDO support denied all and posted the same canned replied to each ticket and every reply. It seems they are not willing to even discuss it. If he used a bot or something after the purchase for a few days, I don't think support would be so stonewalled.

To me this suggests the violation was great and very likely this account was one of the 84 that exploited the holiday event and they're not going to reconsider the ban for any of those accounts.

 

[aeiouxz]

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

They are very harsh when it comes to ban, they dont usually gives warning for cheating but permanent ban immediatly, it happened to me to get a permanent ban for the use of a marketplace bot without any warning and it was my first violention, luckily enough, i managed to lift the ban, but it was a nightmare
maybe the buyer can always attempt a unban explaining the situation, they tend to make some nice move if you bring a lot of money monthly or if you are a streamer ( it has been proven many times that whale get a better support experience than normal player )

Unfortunately, there was no warning, just a permanent ban. I wish there was a warning, or at least a shortban or something. I really liked that account.
I tried everything that I could, I contacted the support, posted on BDO forum, pm-ed the KAKAO GM (he ignored me), pm-ed a forum CM (he replied).
Everyone said that the ban is permanent because 3rd party programs were used.
I spent 600 EURO on KAKAO CASH between 01 and 16th January.
If they were inclined to ignore/forgive big spenders, they would've done it because it was a solid reason, but it was not the case, because the actions done during Oct-Nov 2018 were probably too serious to be forgiven.

After I got the account on 01 January, I just did afk processing, did some PVP, sold a lot of the stuff that was in the account storage, preordered some PEN weapons and that was basically all my activity in 2 weeks. I spoke to a forum CM and he said that if I got banned with that ban wave, the ban is permanent and cannot be lifted. Most likely they have 0 tolerance if you use fishbot and gain in a few weeks what other players gain in 1 year.
I bought the account with 5x highend PEN gear, 3000 caphras in storage (saw them after I paid), 6000 memory fragments (saw them after I paid) and my guess is that they were obtained after the seller fishbotted a lot during the Mischevious event. Getting 3000 caphras takes time and they cannot be obtained just by afking (the seller said that he just afk-ed over the last few months, in a previous reply), unless you afk with fishbot.

The ban was issued the same day this post was made. I do not believe this is a coincidence.
https://community.blackdesertonline.../banwave-mischievous-and-un-fortunate.373421/

I also find it very hard to believe someone would pay $5000+ for an account and immediately start using 3rd party scripts.

Finally, I find it hard to believe that the very first violation on an account would result in a immediate and permanent ban. I'm not familiar with BDO policies, but most games give you a warning or temporary suspension for the first violation, not a permanent ban.

I'm sorry, I'm inclined to side with the buyer based on common sense. The seller will be responsible for a full refund as it appears they might have know the account could be banned due to the exploits in Oct/Nov and sold it before that happened.

I truly appreciate the understanding and the evaluation of this dispute.

My biggest concern right now is the seller. I think he values the 5584$ that he obtained from me more than he values his epicNPC account so I don't know if he will refund me. On Discord he showed me a screenshot of his paypal account (which is now gone since he blocked me) which stated that he had only around 2000$. By now he probably managed to withdraw all the money and he will never refund me anymore, claiming that he doesn't have the money.

I am concerned because initially he said he will refund me, then a few hours he blocked me after I told him to proceed to the refund. He probably blocked me trying to buy himself more time to withdraw the remaining money.

 

[aeiouxz]

The buyer opened 4 support tickets for the issue with multiple replies. BDO support denied all and posted the same canned replied to each ticket and every reply. It seems they are not willing to even discuss it. If he used a bot or something after the purchase for a few days, I don't think support would be so stonewalled.

To me this suggests the violation was great and very likely this account was one of the 84 that exploited the holiday event and they're not going to reconsider the ban for any of those accounts.

The seller did not say anything in the last 60 hours. What can be done for me to recover my money?

 

[NoOne1995]

The seller did not say anything in the last 60 hours. What can be done for me to recover my money?

Sadly you paid via bitcoin, so you cant do anything about it unless the seller refund you

 

[aeiouxz]

Sadly you paid via bitcoin, so you cant do anything about it unless the seller refund you

I did not pay the seller directly. I paid epicNPC using bitcoin and epicNPC paid the seller via PayPal. I just hope that epicNPC can open a dispute against the seller, via PayPal

 

[ITALY]

I did not pay the seller directly. I paid epicNPC using bitcoin and epicNPC paid the seller via PayPal. I just hope that epicNPC can open a dispute against the seller, via PayPal

I do not think EpicNPC will do that, however since the value of the trans. is so big, he may make an exception, but then again it's unlikely. I sure hope he does consider disputing the payment given the informations provided.

 

[EpicNPC]

I'm sorry, but we won't be able to do that. Our Trade Guardian MM system only provides protection during the exchange process. If an account is banned later on for whatever reason, even if it's the seller's fault as it appears to be here, we do not dispute the payment on behalf of the buyer. Sorry.

The seller has been banned for failing to resolve this issue.

scammers info:
[email protected]
NotMyIngameName23232

Unfortunately there's nothing else we can do in this situation.