ToonVendor - Bad Business Practices / Illegal Activities

rmnesbitt · May 4, 2012

There is sooo much information that I am not sure where to start. I will attempt to do my best spelling out each individual thing in as concise a manner as possible.

I first came to ToonVendor (John) as a referral from MMO-Armory (Jano). I was told that ToonVendor (John) could do "illegal" things to recall accounts that were otherwise impossible to recall. After getting in touch which ToonVendor (John), he calls me on Skype to discuss his methods of account retrieval. Basically he forges ID scans and pretends to be the account holder. He gets the secret question answer from Blizzard through clever use of account retrieval forms and photoshop skills. I paid him 440$ (300$ for his time, 90$ for new cd keys, 50$ for the photoshop work done by a 3rd party). Aproximately a week goes by and still nothing has turned up to show that any of my money has really been spent wisely. After a few more days ToonVendor (John) tells me that he was unable to get the account in question back for me and that he would need to keep some of the money for his time and effort, photoshop, etc. We came to an agreement that we would apply all but 150$ (100$ for photoshop work done by 3rd party and 50$ for his time) to the purchase of another account.

This is now going to be the second transaction I will do with ToonVendor (John). He tells me he has a 60 SL Priest that is UNMERGED. I decided to purchase this account and we went forward with payment. 290$ from the first transaction (440 -150) was applied and I sent him another 250$ to cover the down payment on the character (totaling 540$). After much headache (refer to http://www.epicnpc.com/scammers/451...k-owes-$385-needs-pay-me-back-nowif-i-am.html) the character ended up not being what I was told it would be. I spent MANY MANY hours getting screenshots for ToonVendor (John) and spent MANY MANY hours conversing with him to help him prove (in the linked thread) that HybridPunk (Andrew) owed him money back. ToonVendor (John) agreed to send me back the money but I instead decided to apply the balance to the purchase of another acocunt.

This is now the third transaction I will do with ToonVendor (John). During the time of all the previous actions going on, I sent ToonVendor (John) the information to my account in order to sell my Legendary Dagger Rogue. I sent him ALL my information on the account including my ID scan and secret question answer. For a short period during the first transaction I asked him to hold off until we figured out if he was going to be able to get the account in question back (through illegal means) or not. He agreed to hold off until the first transaction was settled. After the first transaction finished (with no results) I asked him to sell the rogue. To this date, he has still NOT sold the rogue or even listed it for sale. All of this information is VERY important later on.

On to the fourth transaction. ToonVendor (John) lists a 9/9 T3 Lock for sale and I decide to snag it. He was asking $3,000 for the account and I already had 540$ in "credit" with him PLUS my rogue he was supposed to be selling (he appraised it at ~$1000. This was more than enough to cover the 30% down payment he was asking for. He gave me login details and all was fine. This is where things really heat up. I came to ToonVendor (John) last night and told him I was unable to pay for the account and told him I wanted to make the situation right somehow. After a long discussion he told me my options and asked me to sleep on it and we would talk again tomorrow. I slept on my options and decided to keep the character and pay off the remainder of the "debt" owed. He told me that until ~1000$ was paid as down payment (460$ more) he was not going to give me back the login details to the account. At this point (due to the huge mess from the previous transactions) I do not feel I should give ToonVendor (John) any more money until I get the login details back. I told him I will not be paying anymore money and I will file non-receipt of goods with my credit card if necessary to get my money back. He then threatened to steal my account (through the means of fake id, photoshop, and clever use of account recovery forms) and that he would get his money one way or another. I would like to give ToonVendor (John) until tomorrow evening to get back to me with a settlement or I will have no choice but to file with my credit card company before the weekend.

Incoming screenshots galore!

Plan for "illegally" retrieving account: imgur: the simple image sharer
Talking about the plan and the ID: imgur: the simple image sharer
Talking about stealing his email / domain: imgur: the simple image sharer
Talking about fake id: imgur: the simple image sharer
Talking about fake id (again): imgur: the simple image sharer
Email containing fake id: imgur: the simple image sharer
Email containing fake id (again): imgur: the simple image sharer
Fake ID photo 1: http://i.imgur.com/HrQcP.jpg
Fake ID Photo 2: imgur: the simple image sharer
Fake ID photo 3: imgur: the simple image sharer
Fake ID photo 4: imgur: the simple image sharer
Talking about selling rogue: imgur: the simple image sharer
Email I sent to sell rogue: imgur: the simple image sharer
Payment 1: imgur: the simple image sharer
Payment 2: imgur: the simple image sharer
Him telling me to sleep on it: imgur: the simple image sharer
Him threating me and apparently not letting me sleep on it: imgur: the simple image sharer
Trying to work something out: imgur: the simple image sharer
Trying to work something out: imgur: the simple image sharer
Trying to work something out: imgur: the simple image sharer

All in all, ToonVendor (John) is mad about several other cases which have ended badly for him (1800$ and 385$) and I believe he is taking it out on me. I understand 100% where ToonVendor (John) is coming from by not wanting to release the account info however, he is trying to strong arm me for what money I have put down on the character. I would like either a refund of all my money (690$ total) or I would like the login details to the lock. If ToonVendor (John) wants to release the login details within 24 hours I will accept them and keep 540$ on retainer with him for this account. If I have to wait longer and longer I would like more and more of the 690$ that I originally paid him (with no results mind you) to be credited towards the lock. I would like to propose 10$ per day (after the initial 24 hours) up to a maximum of 15 days (or 150$ extra). For example:

First 24 hours resolved: 540$ on retainer, John keeps 150$ for his previous work. We are all happy.
25-48 hours resolved: 550$ on retainer, John keeps 140$ for his previous work.
49-72 hours resolved: 560$ on retainer, John keeps 130$ for his previous work.
......
337-360 hours resolved: 690$ on retainer, John keeps 0$ for his previous work.
361+ hours still not resolved: Full refund of 690$, John keeps the warlock.

I really did not want this to happen, I gave John much respect during the entire process from 4/10 - 5/4. Again, I understand where John is coming from but to strong arm people into doing what HE wants is wrong. I hope all can be resolved quickly. If anyone needs ANYTHING ELSE, I can take screenshots. I have EVERY SINGLE WORD logged and ready to be submitted.

Thanks,
Ryan

rmnesbitt · May 4, 2012

I wanted to post and state that John and I made and agreement within an hour of my posting this thread. All was resolved and as far as I am concerned (at this moment in time) no actions should be taken against him.

Eccentric Penguin · May 4, 2012

Of course he contacted you after posting this. Heh.

Epic 1NPC · May 4, 2012

Transaction 1 (happened first)
----------------------------------
rmnesbitt pays Toonvender to recall an account for him illegally
recall fails
rmnesbitt receives a partial refund ($290) $150 for time and effort kept by Toon

Transaction 2 (happened second)
---------------------------------
rmnesbitt buys a priest from toonvendor
priest is not as advertised
rmnesbitt received credit ($250)

Transaction 3 (happened during T1 & T2)
------------------------------------------
rmnesbitt provides toonvendor with a rogue to sell for him
all info provided including ID
toonvendor has not sold the rogue yet
Toonvendor appraised it for $1000

Transaction 4
------------------
rmnesbitt buys warlock from Toonvendor for $3000
rmnesbitt uses credit ($540) and Rogue as down payment
rmnesbitt tells Toon he cannot pay for the remainer of the balance
Toon takes account back, tells rmnesbitt he needs to pay $460 more to get account info back
rmnesbitt decided he does want the account and agrees to pay the full $3000
Toonvendor requests an addition $460 from rmnesbitt to hit the 30% down payment

rmnesbitt wants either a full refund for all transactions $540 + $10/day ($150 max) for every day it drags on and his Rogue back (all transactions canceled)
or
continue with T4 and receive login info back for Warlock

My comments coming below in a few mins.

Epic 1NPC · May 4, 2012

Regardless of whether or not this was resolved, Toonvendor was given his first and final warning about forged IDs two months ago where I clearly stated if he was caught using fake IDs again he would be banned.

I'm glad everything is resolved between you two, but I cannot have people using forged IDs. Having said that, Toonvendor has always resolved any issues he's ever had and his feedback speaks for itself, so I'm a bit torn.

I'd like some feedback from the community. Should this result in a permanent ban? temp ban? 30, 60 days? or perhaps a negative feedback added to his account?

Austin Powers · May 4, 2012

as much as i hate to see repped people banned as this community needs repped members, you did clearly state that if he was caught using forged ID's you would ban him. Even if it was a temp ban u cant be lenient as it would show that they would only get a slap on a wrist for doing it. but thats just my 2 cents worth only you can make the ultimate decision

Logical Nonsense · May 4, 2012

Since you are asking from the community I will chime in, I think the only thing, as far as feedback, would be if you, Mike, left one on Toonvendor warning of these practices, and in the feedback, told anyone on the forums that if they try and leave a scammer thread about using this "banned activity" they will also be sanctioned/repremanded/banned.

---------- Post added 05-04-2012 at 08:16 AM ----------

as much as TV needs to stop forging ID's, people in the community need to stop trying to get them forged, especially if we are trying to maintain a legit status

Eccentric Penguin · May 4, 2012

I agree you did clearly state he would be banned if it happened again. Can't use one set of rules for the "pro" sellers, and another set of rules for everyone else. He clearly and knowingly went against what you said without a care, because they feel like they are entitled, and untouchable. I feel he should be banned, per what you told him.

---------- Post added 05-04-2012 at 11:19 AM ----------

If not, you might as well go ahead and start un-banning known scammers as well.

Czero83 · May 4, 2012

The Right thing to do is follow your word as a strict leader and cut him no slack and ban him....

BUT...

toonvendor is a pretty descent guy, and he is legit althought at times with a strong arm approach. And not only will this hurt the community with a legit selling being banned, but will also hurt his business badly. MY VOTE is a 7 day temp ban, and a NEG remark regarding this thread and his NO LONGER using Fake id's.. I think that's fair and wont' hurt his business. Face it.. today's world is a crappy financial place and I think a guy with that much rep and time involved and money invested in this should be given another shot. He deals with expensive accounts NONE of which i can afford lol but he is a good guy and legitt seller and buyer...

ONE MORE SHOT!!!!

-RJ- · May 4, 2012

Perm ban. He already had a pass on illegal activities, and then continues to do it =Perm ban.

Also the proof of this is clear and im sure you all know it highly illegal to forge a goverment document and BOTH parties can get in alot of trouble, also the site. Rep shouldnt matter at all in this situation. Glad he is fixing this, but clearly he will continue.

Eccentric Penguin · May 4, 2012

Czero there shouldn't be a BUT. It doesn't matter how good of a person he is. Fact is he blatantly showed disrespect of not only EpicNPC but the rules he has put in place on this site. If they don't apply to TV they shouldn't apply to anyone.

GameSupply · May 4, 2012

I really don't have an opinion here one way or another about this situation.

However, just so I am clear. Forgery is a grey area that needs to be voted on?

I've been trying for years to get Blizzard to green light players trading/selling accounts among themselves. Obviously I have championed myself as the one who should be licensed to do this however the benefits would be across the board to everyone who wants to buy/sell/trade accounts in any game.

Community leaders taking votes of forging notary stamps well, you can see why Blizzard would want no part of that.

Eccentric Penguin · May 4, 2012

who care's if it badly hurts TV's business, he should have thought about that when we was given his final warning two months ago. How will it hurt the community? In my opinion more people will be able to post in buy/sell without his and the other "pro" sellers taking up half a page.

---------- Post added 05-04-2012 at 11:47 AM ----------

Also Czero, he was given ANOTHER shot when he was warned two months ago to quit doing it. He had his shot.

-RJ- · May 4, 2012

Forgery of a Government document like I said is highly ILLEGAL. With a website allowing a community doing so could end all of this and result in bad for all of us. I think Mike made it clear he does NOT want it happening on his site. Though it is happening, people have been told to stop and if THEY decided not to listen that should be banned.

Yes I am sure it will hurt him overall, but that was a choice he made, not us.

Sky~ · May 4, 2012

The problem is, if anything illegal passed through this website, and we were asked about it, we would have to fully cooperate with any authorities. This issue goes hand in hand with federal offenses, jail time, and hefty fines.

We do not want or need any form of illegal activities on this site. You can compete in this business and make money without using illegally forged documents.

Epic 1NPC · May 4, 2012

no back and forth arguing, just state your opinion and that's it.

Logical Nonsense · May 4, 2012

Sky~ said:
The problem is, if anything illegal passed through this website, and we were asked about it, we would have to fully cooperate with any authorities. This issue goes hand in hand with federal offenses, jail time, and hefty fines.

We do not want or need any form of illegal activities on this site. You can compete in this business and make money without using illegally forged documents.

Isn't almost everything we do on this site illegal? Or, at very least a moral grey area? All trading, buying, selling of virtual IP is covered in the EULA of almost every game as illegal and punishable buy legal actions.

rmnesbitt · May 4, 2012

Against blizzards TOS / EULA does not make it illegal. But as Mike said. NO more back and forth just state an opinion and lets move on. My opinion is that I do not have one as I am a party involved. My word has been said by initiating the post in the first place. :/

Twizz · May 4, 2012

Agreed. A game's TOS/EULA is hardly the law. Forging government documents on the other hand is. I think that "real" illegal activity has no place on these forums and should be banned on sight....just my 2 cents.

Czero83 · May 4, 2012

to zetterberg... be around more than like 4 days.. and ill think u have a say.... I THINK THE MODS SHOULD VOTE ON THIS.. they have proved they are TWV and legit.. i don't think it should be open to less than year old member who aren't either TWV or +5 rep..

My opinion is JUST that.. I will see whatever mike/mods want to do as GOOD... They are the ultimate say.. MAke a sticky that shows PHOTOSHOPPING ID not allowed... we dont' specificly have it in the rules.. so kinda like he fell into the "grey" area

Uscolt45 · May 4, 2012

Sidney812 said:
Agreed. A game's TOS/EULA is hardly the law. Forging government documents on the other hand is. I think that "real" illegal activity has no place on these forums and should be banned on sight....just my 2 cents.

Agreed. When it comes to letting a 1000 dollar account be locked, or forging an ID, I find it hard to believe that TV wouldn't forge an ID again to save his investment etc. So I do not see another chance doing any good, it will continue whether he is banned or not.

MaskedArmory · May 4, 2012

I like John on a personal level. But, let me ask this: If this were any other person, would we even be having this conversation?

By letting this slide, you are saying that forging IDs is okay to the rest of the community.

I am well aware that that the RMT community will ALWAYS have a need for fake IDs and fake notary stamps, as long as Blizzard requires them due to name changes and getting accounts unlocked. This is an opportunity to tell the community that this is not allowed here, no matter who you are.

Again, I have a personal stake in this as John is a good friend and I hate to see this kind of thing happen, but he did dig this hole himself and chosen to bury himself in it.

Rafflez · May 4, 2012

I 100% agree with KH. The use of fake id's and you allowing it on your site wont only hit John with Jail time but you as well mike for knowing it was happening and not reporting it. though many users obviously did this when they used the Name Change to the battle.nets because we all know they used fake IDs to do this with a lovely little notary stamp that was probably photo shopped.

fitstar · May 4, 2012

Kind of not worth a discussion: Illegal activity, been warned once, second time it's getting obvious now, who knows what else was happening. To keep it short, definitely a perm ban.

Overclock · May 4, 2012

i am def not an old member but if i ever buy from a reseller then i will pick toonsvendor every time.
With the number of scammers and recallers out there i would feel that my money would be well spent dealing with toonsvendor since he will put up a fight and try to get the account back even tho he would take it to extreme measures at times.

If anything i vote for a 3 day ban.

Sky~ · May 4, 2012

Overclock, this has nothing to do with illegal activities John does. Mike wants an opinion on how we should handle the use of illegal activities on the site, we aren't asking about his reputation or anything. We know John is reputable and from what we know, he's a nice guy. This still doesn't make it ok for him to use illegal services on our site.

Pinch · May 4, 2012

Because this site is full of purely legal activities? You do notice that people on this site are trading / buying / selling stuff they do not own. Let's talk about legal issues here, first off John is one of the few members I actually trust with my accounts / money, he's also one of the few remaining veterans from way back in the markee days.

If you want to do something about illegal activities on this site? Shut it down, because unless the whole core of this site is changed drasticly, it's going to be a pit of (mostly) harmless, yet illegal activity like it always has.

Edit: Usually, I would of said John should allow you to log into the account and play until you finish paying it off. Though the way you handled this, and bringing so much attention to him and what he does, I don't think you should get anything because it's just a solid form of public humiliation.

zomgheal · May 4, 2012

You warned him, he continued to do it, you can't make an exception to that just because he's a 'pro' seller and appears to have flawless feedback - when he doesn't. He sold me an account well over a year ago, and it was recalled about a year ago. He was able to recover it back the first time, told me that the OO couldn't have recalled(quit since he just got married or something and that it was my fault and that he was no longer responsible even though there was a life time guarantee on the account and I didn't break any of the terms. It was recalled again days later, by the OO, who hasn't quit since I know who he is in game. And ToonVendor refused to help.

All in all, you can't make exceptions otherwise that opens the doors to others like him to do the same. If usings faked IDs is not allowed by this site, nobody, regardless of there 'status' should be allowed to do so

Czero83 · May 4, 2012

FINAL SAY 30 day MAx... a Neutral or Neg. move on... TV gets caught it's on him.. MAKE PUBLIC NOTE /STICKY that USING FAKE OR PHOTOSHOPPED id's is not allowed...

Pinch · May 4, 2012

Please open a separate thread about this, Mike.

You're putting John on a stake and allowing others to just stone him, it's not how this should go down. Leave this thread for the OP, the mods, and John.

GameSupply · May 4, 2012

Pinch said:
Because this site is full of purely legal activities? You do notice that people on this site are trading / buying / selling stuff they do not own. Let's talk about legal issues here, first off John is one of the few members I actually trust with my accounts / money, he's also one of the few remaining veterans from way back in the markee days.

If you want to do something about illegal activities on this site? Shut it down, because unless the whole core of this site is changed drasticly, it's going to be a pit of (mostly) harmless, yet illegal activity like it always has.

Edit: Usually, I would of said John should allow you to log into the account and play until you finish paying it off. Though the way you handled this, and bringing so much attention to him and what he does, I don't think you should get anything because it's just a solid form of public humiliation.

You can't be humiliated by what you don't do.

KHAccounts.net said:
I like John on a personal level. But, let me ask this: If this were any other person, would we even be having this conversation?

By letting this slide, you are saying that forging IDs is okay to the rest of the community.

I am well aware that that the RMT community will ALWAYS have a need for fake IDs and fake notary stamps, as long as Blizzard requires them due to name changes and getting accounts unlocked. This is an opportunity to tell the community that this is not allowed here, no matter who you are.

Again, I have a personal stake in this as John is a good friend and I hate to see this kind of thing happen, but he did dig this hole himself and chosen to bury himself in it.

We have a conflict of interest so I do not think our votes should count in this really. I also do not see why it is a discussion in the first place, however having second thoughts about permanently removing a long term member makes sense for the owner. None of us, (no matter how we might think of ourselves

) really make that big of a dent here as far as that goes. I know that we have stayed away for months in the past and the site is yet still here. Over the last 2 years the conversion rate for this forum (People who actually buy something) has dropped below .5% of total visits so it simply isn't worth spending the time maintaining a constant presence here. The market is dying anyways as the number of people actually interested in playing the game that don't have the time to do the very dumbed down and easily accomplished things to view current content decreases. No other game has gotten even close to having an aftermarket like WoW did, or EQ did before it.

People seem to think that "Pro" seller's get some sort of break when it comes to matters on these forums. I guarantee you we do not. If anything it is much harsher for us. If we mess up and someone complains, well we simply have to handle it (and then answer questions about it for years afterwards).

I learned a long time ago that people complaining publicly is a direct result of your incompetence. Not in making the mistake in the first place-that is simply going to happen, but in how the situation is dealt with. Game Supply has taken a different approach than most in that we simply handle the problem as quickly as possible. I think the last complaint we had was for actually refunding a purchase instead of going through this whole process with forging signatures and ID's. We have never send in a TOU form filled out by anyone other than the original owner of the account. We have never forwarded ID. If an account is locked and we need to do this we simply contact the original owner and have it done (paying them if necessary to do so). If they are the ones making the issue in the first place obviously this will not solve the problem and we simply deal with our customer that has the problem refunding them or providing them with another account.

I think one thing that is being overlooked here is that for every recovery form sent to Blizzard from someone other than the original owner-that is also forgery and fraud. In some broader sense of the term it could also be construed as identity theft. If the person whom you are forging their signature ever complained it would be a very simple matter to prove you did this. This is why we don't. I'd rather eat the loss and when this company/market is done, (very shortly for myself), I can walk away with absolutely no doubt that I did not participate in any illegal activities and will not be liable for nor prosecuted for such.

Buying and selling accounts among players is no more than buying and selling word documents. No, you do not own word but you do own the time you spent developing the document and you can in fact sell those templates. A lawyer explained it to me this way years ago and if you have ever actually read a EULA or TOU they are all pretty bogus from a legal standpoint.

Forgery and fraud however are very clearly defined. Too much youth here in this marketplace and the mistaken thought that no one will ever complain.

Pinch · May 4, 2012

Secure data owned by another company =\= Word documents

You don't own the writings on the documents, but you own the document backbone, unless of course you purchased that.
You don't own the account, or anything about it, you pay them to play it.

harz0rz · May 4, 2012

This thread is retarded. The mods allow dip****s like "Dontremember" to sell information on how to ILLEGALLY change your account name (yes it is illegal to impersonate a person on the telephone in a business call to Blizzard), yet it's illegal to forge documents? He builds up rep selling info on how to perform illegal activities, then is banned only after he scams a few people?? Yet we want to hang Toonvendor in the public square?

This entire site is a gray area at the moment. Make a sticky clearly stating that illegal activities are not allowed here; and clarify with a list.

PS - The original poster of this thread is a complete moron. I'm sorry, but you are what is wrong with this country. People signing up for stuff they can't afford, then causing problems because whoever you owe money to wants what is owed to them.

Sky~ · May 4, 2012

The user stated was selling ways to change the name without illegal documents.

It is clearly stated in the rules of the account services forum, if you ever have read them.

Apoclypse said:
Identity Theft
Any posts that require someone to edit an identification card of any kind to gain access to a banned account (or what ever) is strictly forbidden on MMOBay. Producing, distributing, using, buying, trading, and selling fake ID's for any purpose is against the law. Not only is it against the law but if you are caught you will face heavy fines ($250,000+) AND jail time. This is NOT worth a World of Warcraft account under any terms. So please do yourself a favor and do not post or get involved with anyone offering stuff like this. If you are caught posting or being involved in such activities on MMOBay you will be warned and if the activities still continue you will be banned. MMOBay will report all findings to the FBI should it become a large problem.

This should be end of story. Now follow what Mike has said and ONLY post your opinion on what we should do. Don't post saying, "so and so does this" or "we all do illegal things". Any other posts not following these guidelines will be infracted.

Uscolt45 · May 4, 2012

With the method Dontremember sold, you do not impersonate anyone, you tell blizzard you put a name that isnt yours on the new account that you made. So you call them as yourself and have the name on the new account you made changed to your own. Small distinction but there ya go.

Pinch · May 4, 2012

I'm surprised nobody has threatened users with "The Jackalz" yet. Oh boy, were those fun times.

Yes Harz, for once I actually agree with you, Dontremember did the same thing but much easier, he made money and then scammed others just to make more money. The funny thing is though, he wasn't made an example of, but of course John's under the spotlight because he has rep, yet he's done nothing but help many MANY users of this site.

Yea, Mark relied on an exploit in the security of a business to perform HIS method, MUCH better!

Sky~ · May 4, 2012

EpicNPC said:
no back and forth arguing, just state your opinion and that's it.

Last warning to all users. After this infractions will be sent out.

harz0rz · May 4, 2012

Completely WRONG. Calling a business and lying to that business to have virtual assets of that business changed to your name when they are in all actuality, not yours, is just as illegal as forging a document to accomplish the same goal. Stop splitting hairs.

I posted this the same time the last warning was posted. My bad.

ToonVendor · May 4, 2012

It won't be happening again, what I did for Ryan was a mistake and something I admit should have never happened again. It really was an exception as I was just trying to help him regain control of his warrior. Since then Ryan has apologized and he even requested to have this thread never made, its sad to see that it still was despite our differences being solved off-board.

It is true that this entire website is essentially a legal grey area, and it would be unfair to ban me when most other professional sellers willingly use fake documents. Some of which have contacted me as recently as this past week regarding if I could help show them how to get forged documentation. I have made it clear that I no longer assist with that sort of thing, and I ignore any requests for helping them get documentation. This thing with Ryan was really just an exception I never should of made, as he begged me to help him get his account back.

If you are to ban me, you must ban multiple other sellers and anyone else who has ever used a fake ID. I see it making much more sense to just issue a final warning out to everyone out this point, delete this thread as was requested by the OP BEFORE it was approved, and move on from this point.

What I do was always meant to help people, not hurt people. An OO recall an account on you? I was always there to set the record straight and help you get your account back. Understand that I will not be there for you guys anymore, now that this forum is so willingly able to throw me up on a cross when most of you participate in the same exact **** you're throwing against me.

---------- Post added 05-04-2012 at 07:52 PM ----------

KHAccounts.net said:
I like John on a personal level. But, let me ask this: If this were any other person, would we even be having this conversation?

By letting this slide, you are saying that forging IDs is okay to the rest of the community.

I am well aware that that the RMT community will ALWAYS have a need for fake IDs and fake notary stamps, as long as Blizzard requires them due to name changes and getting accounts unlocked. This is an opportunity to tell the community that this is not allowed here, no matter who you are.

Again, I have a personal stake in this as John is a good friend and I hate to see this kind of thing happen, but he did dig this hole himself and chosen to bury himself in it.

There's PLENTY more regarding highly repped users. If you're going to speak out against me on this ID mess, you should at least not be involved in it yourself. Unbelievably hypocritical.

Keenz511 · May 4, 2012

Comming from someone who has used Toonvendor multiple times I don't think any other company is as nice, helpful, legit, or cares are much as Toonvendor. He is a fully trusted and legit seller/buyer, and is one of the only ones I have full trust in since a lot of these other sites can seem shady at times. He's an amazing seller and extremely helpful when problems arise which you can't really find in companies now-adays.

Pinch · May 4, 2012

Mike you knew this would be a ****fest, why is this still open?

Sky~ · May 4, 2012

Bottom line. This is not allowed on this website.

I am temporarily closing this thread as it is getting a little out of hand. I will let Mike decide on reopening it, and await his decision on further actions.

If anyone has anything worth mentioning, feel free to PM me.

Epic 1NPC · May 5, 2012

This was not an easy decision to come to and I've taken into account all the replies from this thread and have decided to give ToonVendor a 60 day temp-ban, plus a negative feedback on his account. KHaccount has also been given a 7 day temp ban for asking TV for a fake ID.

My decision was based on many different factors, one of which was Toon's reputation and veteran status on these forums. I don't agree with the statement that reputation should not come into play as I don't see how you can ignore someones positive impact over a few mistakes. As with any decision, even in courts, motive plays a large role in the punishments that are doled out to criminals. Had these IDs been used for malicious purposes, stealing accounts, then without question this would result in a perm-ban, but this was not the case and Toon's 100% positive feedback proves this.

I believe a 60 day temp-ban plus a negative feedback on the account is a fair punishment and is harsh enough to discourage others. That said, this is Toon's final warning, the next time it will be met with a permanent ban.

I fundamental believe that most people should receive a second chance, an while this is Toon's third, perhaps he did not understand the severity of his actions the first time. Hopefully it has become clear now.

Moving forward, to be fair, if you are caught using a fake ID or asking for one, you will receive a 60 day-temp ban and negative feedback added to your account, but only if you are a veteran member with a large amount of positive feedbacks. All others will receive a perm ban. A second violation will result in a perm-ban.

While some might see this as unfair, as I said, a persons standing and reputation play a role. Someone who has proven to be a reputable buyer/seller/trader will receive some leeway compared to someone with little to no feedback.

The thread will remain closed as I do not it getting out of hand again. If you have any concerns, feel free to PM me.

ToonVendor - Bad Business Practices / Illegal Activities

Similar threads