Possible Scam

T3hEmperor · Nov 15, 2013

I am posting this in hopes that the moderators here can help me get this mess of a deal cleaned up. I'm hoping that this guy is not scamming me, but after everything that has happened and the way it all went down I am very weary that I will ever see my money back, and if I don't, I don't want others to fall into this trap. As of writing this I have yet to hear back from him on when I might expect a refund.

Information
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Dispute Date: November 15th, 2013
Method of Contact Used: Skype
Instant Messenger username of the person you're accusing: Agaeon_wins
EpicNPC username of the person you're accusing: Agaeon
Your Instant Messenger ID: tehemper0r

DISPUTE Information
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What is the dispute about? Account/Money
Link of transaction thread: http://www.epicnpc.com/threads/5691...counts-gt-NA-EUW-EUNE-Servers-gt-Check-It-Out! (This is his new post, He's been posting this same thread for awhile now from what I can tell)
Approximate value of property: $1024.00 USD

Was a middleman used? No.
If yes, who? N/A
Provide information about the dispute and what lead to it: Basically, I contacted this guy about his League of Legends accounts. Given the fact that he has a good bit of reputation with the website and the amount of money involved he told me that I would have to wait 30 days for PayPal to clear the money and so there would be no problems with chargebacks, etc. I agreed to wait the 30 days for the account. We kept in contact throughout the month and the guy even gave me an Infinite Crisis beta key to tide me over till the 30 days was up. After 30 days I contacted him again, Trying to finish up the deal. This is where things went south. He told me that the 30 days is an "average" time (which he NEVER said before) and that it could be 30-45 days or maybe even up to 60 or more. Which is NOT what we agreed upon when we first talked. When I tried to explain that to him, he made multiple excuses as to why I would have to wait and that was not alright with me. I did get a bit flustered during this period of chatting back and forth with this guy. In the end I told him that he needed to release the account to me that we agreed upon or a refund needs to be made. Now, I am just waiting on my refund as his "partner" (not sure if this is just him or an actual partner) said that he is waiting for the money back from Agaeon.

Proof
######################
Chat Logs: Screenshots of our entire conversation minus a bit of non-deal related conversation is provided below. (I can include this if need be but it doesn't pertain to the deal at all.)
Pictures/Screenshots: LOTS of Screenshots inc...
Skype Profile - http://i.imgur.com/cAZtEvj.jpgp
Conversation - http://i.imgur.com/lADYwpz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BjapcGV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GZfb16B.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/342tKZ4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Rwt3BIu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5jYFxke.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MFu0ygj.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9330hJp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oMxstm6.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xDwKVyl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2mmwwkh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lpPHpzI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ne4uiKH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LUGbg2v.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pnzt64H.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/65ZI2vF.jpg

Additional Information
######################
Did you do any background searching before the transaction? Yes, I reviewed his Feedback on this site, and browsed the net for anything scam related.
Have you traded with this person before? No
Approximately how many transactions have you done on EpicNPC? 6-7? I've bought several accounts through these forums. Every time I say it will be my last but then I come back for more.

**Edit**
I am editing this to show you the 2 screenshots that he sent me, confirming he had access to account (or what I would assume) these images show our conversation in Skype in the background as well.
http://i.imgur.com/1EKOQPq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eGuwWsS.jpg

Epic 1NPC · Nov 16, 2013

I see that 30 days was the agreed upon time with no mention that it might take longer. Nov 13th was the due date. No account was provided at this time so the buyer asked for a refund.

Agaeon if you have a 30 day wait policy you cannot then tell the buyer to wait another 15-30 days after the initial 30. You must either provide them with the item or refund them. Waiting an extra day or two is okay if there's a delay somewhere, but 30 more days is ridiculous. If that's the case you must tell the buyer upfront it will take between 30-60 days.

It seems Agaeon stated on Nov 14th that he paid the seller of the LoL account by accident and is now waiting for the seller to refund him so he can refund you.

This refund should take less than 5 minutes to issue. It's been 2 days so I don't understand why there is a delay. I expect a refund to be issued with 48 hrs.

Agaeon · Nov 16, 2013

Hey there.

First of all, I have been charged back multiple times over Paypal from certain members of EpicNPC (the past few months, as well as this month). Aside the EpicNPC members, some of those mentioned were random people that found my threads but apparently haven't registered. Due to these Charge Backs, I am unable to refund the Buyer until the money is at my disposal. It was mentioned before in the conversations between the Buyer and the Seller. Paypal states that the money will be in my Pending Balance as long as they see it being required, and once it is available, it is available (I do not have a time limit on when it will be in my Available Balance). Furthermore, I am not able to spend any money out of my own pockets as I do not even have that much money right now. I believe this is nothing unusual to understand.

Secondly, I've been here a very long time and I stick to my professionality, therefore as far as I'm concerned, I may provide the Buyer a New Account once acquired as well.
Unfortunately, I am not able to do anything else around this "issue" apart from what I've mentioned in this very Post.

Moreover Mike, if this represents a major reason for punishment (even though I do not hold the power in my hands here), I take full responsibility and will accept whatever comes my way.
Regardless of the possible outcome of this situation and my status on EpicNPC, I will do my best to provide the Buyer with either an Account or the Money that has been paid from his side.

Sorry for the late reply. I haven't been home or at my PC by that matter until just now.

Cheers!

P.S.
You may feel free to check up on Paypal's FAQ as this is a standard procedure to provide the Seller a certain amount of safety after the said person has been charged back multiple times (withdrawing the money and being charged back makes the seller lose the money and potentially even an item which he was selling in the first place).
Keep in mind I do not make any profit out of this whole thing.

T3hEmperor · Nov 16, 2013

Right, The whole reason I even dealt with you and agreed to wait the 30 days was because you have been here for over a year and have 100% positive feedback over that time period. Honestly, You had been great at communicating throughout this process until the 30 days was up. Whatever the situation is/was with your PayPal is not really part of this deal. If you've had problems in the past couple of months with other members, that's not me. I do apologize for the issues, It really does suck. But what we agreed upon was 30 days. Even after the stupid (And I put that on me, I was upset and let my emotions get the best of me) argument that we had, I talked to your partner and told him that I'm not looking for a refund, I just wanted the account that I paid for. You refused that, and so with that, I'll just wait on the refund. But I do expect it in a timely manner, as I've already waited 30 days and am still empty-handed.

Austin Powers · Nov 16, 2013

Agaeon just because you have been scammed by other members there is no reason to screw up legit dealings with another user.

You clearly stated there was a 30 day wait period which was agreed by tehemper0r.

I see no reason why it took longer then that.

Epicnpc's Ruling still stands

It seems Agaeon stated on Nov 14th that he paid the seller of the LoL account by accident and is now waiting for the seller to refund him so he can refund you.

This refund should take less than 5 minutes to issue. It's been 2 days so I don't understand why there is a delay. I expect a refund to be issued with 48 hrs.

he originally wanted the account he paid for which you refused so you have 48 hours to provide a refund or you will be banned

Agaeon · Nov 16, 2013

T3hEmperor said:
Right, The whole reason I even dealt with you and agreed to wait the 30 days was because you have been here for over a year and have 100% positive feedback over that time period. Honestly, You had been great at communicating throughout this process until the 30 days was up. Whatever the situation is/was with your PayPal is not really part of this deal. If you've had problems in the past couple of months with other members, that's not me. I do apologize for the issues, It really does suck. But what we agreed upon was 30 days. Even after the stupid (And I put that on me, I was upset and let my emotions get the best of me) argument that we had, I talked to your partner and told him that I'm not looking for a refund, I just wanted the account that I paid for. You refused that, and so with that, I'll just wait on the refund. But I do expect it in a timely manner, as I've already waited 30 days and am still empty-handed.

a) I am not the person you've been talking to in the start. I'm merely redirecting the money to the actual Seller. I am the person you exchanged the last few words with.
b) That very Seller does not have access to my EpicNPC Account. He has used my Skype to sell his goods from which I have absolutely no profit. The said Seller is my friend, and I have allowed him to use my Skype Username as I'm not really that active any more (have nothing to sell). I have only bumped a couple of threads every now and then as a favour to him as well.

To reply to Bean, "Agaeon just because you have been scammed by other members there is no reason to screw up legit dealings with another user."
- I'm not "screwing up" anyone as I'm not the one holding the Money or the Account.
- It took longer than that due to the Chargeback & Pending Balance period which expires in between 30-60 days as was stated by the Seller a couple of times.

That being said, I am not able to provide a refund within 48 hours as I do not have the money.
If you believe banning me will solve this issue, then by all means go ahead.

Cheers!

T3hEmperor · Nov 16, 2013

I'm not here to get anyone banned, I'm here to get either my account or my money back. You obviously need to talk to your friend and figure out what is going on, I don't see why that should take more than 48 hours.

Agaeon · Nov 16, 2013

When you think about it, this is not exactly the place to seek help in getting your Account or your Money back.

I will repeat this once again in case you haven't understood from my previous posts.
The Account cannot be provided from the side of the Seller as he decided to break the deal with you due to your "threats" about contacting Paypal and creating a possible Chargeback.
He is pointing out on to the fact that he might end up getting Scammed for an Account and lose his money due to that reason alone.

As far as money goes, it can be provided once it is in the Available Balance.

Cheers!

Geek · Nov 16, 2013

Agaeon said:
When you think about it, this is not exactly the place to seek help in getting your Account or your Money back.

I will repeat this once again in case you haven't understood from my previous posts.
The Account cannot be provided from the side of the Seller as he decided to break the deal with you due to your "threats" about contacting Paypal and creating a possible Chargeback.
He is pointing out on to the fact that he might end up getting Scammed for an Account and lose his money due to that reason alone.

As far as money goes, it can be provided once it is in the Available Balance.

Cheers!

If you facilitate a sale using this site, you're responsible for that end of the deal, regardless of if you sold it for someone else.
The same can be said if someone else knowingly uses your skype and does deals here, You are held responsible.

Epic 1NPC · Nov 17, 2013

The Chargeback & Pending Balance period is irrelevant because this is a refund situation. You sent the seller the payment by mistake, which was your mistake not the buyer's, but why haven't they refunded you yet? If you sent the payment by accident, the refund can be issued to you within 30 seconds. Agaeon why don't you have the money back yet? It's been 3 days.

Once you do have the money back, I don't understand why it can't be immediately refunded back to T3hEmperor. Chargeback & Pending Balance period does not come into play in this situation.

30 days have expired and the buyer is now requesting a refund. Holding his money for an addition 15-30 days is not okay and if a refund is not issued within 24 hrs I will recommend to T3hEmperor that he should chargeback the payment.

Again if it takes longer than 30 days, you HAVE to tell your buyers that it can take 30-60 days at the time of sale, not 30 days later when the account should be delivered.

Agaeon · Nov 17, 2013

I never said the Payment was an accident or a mistake, and quite frankly, I'm not sure where you picked that off. As far as the money goes, I don't have it due to the above mentioned.
Once again, I wasn't the one talking to the Buyer in the beginning, however, I am partially responsible for any misunderstandings that may have occured.
Furthermore, the case here is that the Seller decided to break the deal and not sell the Account after all (due to a possible Chargeback threat which you mentioned just now yourself).
If it wasn't for the unnecessary threat from the side of the Buyer, he would have his Account by now and none of this would be even discussed.

Cheers!

Austin Powers · Nov 17, 2013

The Case here is the "seller" used your Skype to do dealings and caused this issue and it taking longer then needed to issue a refund.

24 Hours to either refund t3hemper0r or come to some other arrangement ( he must confirm the arrangement ) or you will be banned.

Please do not try to turn this onto t3hemper0r. If the original arrangement was kept then he wouldn't of needed to of said anything about chargebacks. It was only after the original 30 days that he was told he needed to wait that he mentioned it.

t3hemper0r would u be willing to accept a payment plan off Agaeon ?

T3hEmperor · Nov 17, 2013

If that's going to get me my money back faster, That's fine with me. On another point, why is your friend not sending you back the money for the account? That's what I am concerned about. He obviously has it, You confirmed on Skype that you sent the payment to him. What is taking so long for him to send it back? And the reason I came here is because you won't reply on Skype and for the past 34 days you've been on Skype 24-7 and now it appears as though you are no longer on Skype and won't respond to me on Skype. Since this is the only way I can actually get you to reply, here we are. Aside from all that, whatever arrangement needs to be made to get my money back is fine with me.

Epic 1NPC · Nov 18, 2013

Agaeon said:
I never said the Payment was an accident or a mistake, and quite frankly, I'm not sure where you picked that off. As far as the money goes, I don't have it due to the above mentioned.

The reason I said it was a mistake because in the chat you said you sent it as part of a bulk payment by accident. It doesn't really matter if it was an accident or not.

Agaeon said:
Once again, I wasn't the one talking to the Buyer in the beginning, however, I am partially responsible for any misunderstandings that may have occured.

This was your account that was used and from my understanding your business, so if your partner messed something up you are still 100% responsible. It doesn't matter who is the person that said what or sent payment to who. In the end it's your Skype account and business and you must take responsibility for it.

Agaeon said:
Furthermore, the case here is that the Seller decided to break the deal and not sell the Account after all (due to a possible Chargeback threat which you mentioned just now yourself).

This is inaccurate.

1) On day 30, you stated to the buyer they must wait another 15-30 days. Only then did he threaten you with a chargeback. You (Agaeon) are the one that broke the deal.

2) I don't understand how the seller could possibly know this info since the buyer and seller never communicated. This means your or your partner told the seller this info.

3) There is no proof the seller backed out because of the buyer being upset. For all I know the seller decided he just wanted to keep his account.

T3hEmperor said:
On another point, why is your friend not sending you back the money for the account? That's what I am concerned about.

This has been my point as well from the start. Why hasn't your partner/friend returned the payment to you? It should take less than 1 minute.

As MrBean stated if a refund is not issued within 24 hrs Agaeon will be banned until it is.

Agaeon · Nov 18, 2013

First of all, I haven't broken the deal at all. I barely exchanged 2 words with the Buyer (which was at the very end).
The Seller was the one talking to him. He was the one who said he hasn't yet received the payment, and by that, he was mistaken the same way I was until I noticed the error (that's where the batch plays the role).

Secondly, the "partner" you are mentioning is the very "Seller" in case you haven't noticed by now (I'm not sure due to the way you described the situation).

Thirdly, I never said I am not equally held responsible for his own errors (or in this case cancelling the deal). If you read my posts carefully, I said I take full responsibility and will accept anything that comes my way.

Unfortunately, at this moment, the money cannot be refunded as it is in the process of being sent back to me. The transactions take place over Paypal as well as Moneybookers, and it is not exactly instant due to a lot of reasons some of which were mentioned before. If I got into details, it would just complicate the whole story even more and I am not really keen on doing so.

As far as I'm concerned, you are more than welcome to ban me.
Once I have the Money in my Account and have refunded the "Buyer", I'll come back around and we'll all forget about this mess.

Cheers!

T3hEmperor · Nov 18, 2013

That's all I really care about. I'm not here to get anyone banned, I'm not trying to get anyone in trouble. I just want the money back.

Epic 1NPC · Nov 19, 2013

T3hEmperor this is your money, so if you don't want to set a deadline the decision is yours. If you change your mind let me know and I'll set one. I'll keep this open until the refund is issued.

T3hEmperor · Nov 19, 2013

Well, I'm just worried that if you ban him, I'll never see my money, and if you don't ban him, I'll never see my money. So it's really a lose-lose for me. If he says he's going to send the money back I'd rather just hope that that's going to happen rather than ban him and there is 0% chance I'll ever get it back. At least this way everyone knows and can stay clear until this is all resolved.

Epic 1NPC · Nov 20, 2013

okay, please keep this updated.

Do not let the money sit there past the dispute date if the refund is delayed. Find out how much time you have and if a refund isn't given a few few days before that limit, open a dispute/chargeback.

T3hEmperor · Nov 21, 2013

Will do, I have tried contacting Agaeon through Skype once a day and still haven't gotten a response. I have another week I believe so if I do not receive my refund by then I will contact PayPal.

Epic 1NPC · Nov 21, 2013

waiting for updates

itsmejoe37 · Nov 21, 2013

I know Im not suppose to post here, but on paypal policy

It doe not take 30 days for money to clear, Ive done several $1000+ deals, and its instant, and its only not instant if your paying with an echeck., and that's only 5-7 days BUT what I do know is @45 days you CANNOT file a dispute on the money. And its very clear that's what the seller is going for. So if I were you I would do a chargeback. And use this thread as proof. Because if he wants to make payments, let him/her make payments to paypal.

Sakura · Nov 21, 2013

Actually paypal/ebay can now place restrictions on your account to limit being able to touch money for up to 3 weeks.

However he can issue a refund at any time, even with that restriction.

T3hEmperor · Nov 22, 2013

Yea, I'm done. I've still yet to hear from this guy on Skype or here now as well. I will be contacting PayPal if I don't get a refund by the end of the day.

*edit* He has been on Skype for the past several days and has been bumping his post so I know he is active. He's specifically not responded to me.

Austin Powers · Nov 22, 2013

please keep us updated as if he hasn't refunded you he will be banned

Austin Powers · Nov 23, 2013

Agaeon has been online and has not responded to this thread but had time to bump their threads. Agaeon has been banned I suggest you dispute the payment via paypal

T3hEmperor · Nov 23, 2013

Done, I actually called and talked to someone, Pretty sure it will work out. Thanks for trying to help out with this.

Possible Scam

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