Paypal Chargeback Scam by Macroturtle

Lenova · Sep 7, 2018

Please Fill Out the Form
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Purchase Date: 7/27/2018
Date the problem began: 8/27/18
Method of Contact Used (chat progam): EpicNPC Personal Messages
username of the person you are accusing: Macroturtle

DISPUTE Information
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Link of transaction thread (URL, Epicnpc thread): https://www.epicnpc.com/conversations.php?do=view&id=1191512
Approximate value of property: $450 USD
Was Trade Guardian used? Yes, 6133

What is the dispute about?
Sold my fortnite account with rare skins. Everything went smoothly, and then a month goes by and I see a chargeback by Macroturtle on paypal for $450.

Other notes:
-My paypal has since then been locked with no way to dispute the chargeback and thus epicnpc is the only way I can take action till I get a hold of paypal.
-I have made an effort to contact him and he/she has yet to respond to my question of "why are you charging me back?"

Proof
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You MUST provide proof or your claim will not be valid

Chat Log Screenshots (make sure username is visible, not display username):
https://imgur.com/a/cUZamrR - 1st pic is showing that the price for my account was $450 and the 2nd pic shows that Macroturtle sent $450 and was verified by our moderator useeds.

Payment Screenshots (make sure the accused email is visible):

https://imgur.com/a/tTD5Dqc - here is a screenshot of the $450 chargeback on my paypal. I know that it is Macroturtle simply because I had made no sells recently that equate to $450. In fact, I have had 0 sells since I sold that account so it must be Macroturtle.

https://imgur.com/a/qjNWYPp - in this link you can see that on July 27, 2017 Justin Adorable sent me $450. At the same time that Macroturtle told me he completed his purchase. In the 2nd screenshot you will see that Justin Adorable is the same guy who is charging me back $450.

Macroturtle · Sep 7, 2018

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

Lenova · Sep 7, 2018

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

Macroturtle · Sep 7, 2018

Well if you werent the one who recovered it then who did?

Like I said in my previous post and in the attached picture, you can still recover mail.ru accounts as long as you have the basic info of the mail.ru account during registration. If you were the previous owner of the account for such a long period, surely you have this information right? or better yet, you could disclose this information to me so I can get the account back? Even knowing this, you have the nerve to say the account that you sold me is fully secure? Dont try and dodge and act like you aren’t liable because you are responsible for what you sell.

To address your other claim, Fortnite tracker info is easily manipulated and honestly doesnt mean ****. I could change the country on my other account through the Geo settings if I wanted. This goes for every account. If this is your way of saying that im lying about the account being recovered and that im still using this until now, this could literally be anyone.

Again, going back to the matter at hand, I said that I DONT HAVE ACCESS to the account. And the only previous owner that I know of is you, so who else is to blame?

Lenova · Sep 7, 2018

Like I said in my previous post, I would not know who has the account but it is definitely not me. As for recovering the mail.ru account, if you actually go on their site for account recovery you can see that there are only a couple options to recover the account: 1.Recovery email, 2.Recovery Phone, 3.Answering a secret question. All of which I do not have access to because you had full access to the account. (https://help.mail.ru/engmail-help/faq/password)

Furthermore, you say that "you can still recover mail.ru accounts as long as you have the basic info of the mail.ru account during registration." Cite me a source from their website that actually says that? Because as far as I know, you can only recover the account from those 3 options I have stated. And those options were all at your disposal because you had full access to the email. So yea, I do have the nerve to say that the account was secure.

Yes, I am responsible for what I sell and so when I sold the account to you I made sure that there weren't any recovery options, the account was completely legitimate, and I had a middleman verify it. The account was completely clean and I have had no issues for the multitude of months that I had been using it. So the account I gave to you was 100% fine and have had no issues with it whatsoever. That is why I said that whatever caused you to get the account stolen from you is not my responsibility and I am therefore not liable for it. Maybe you gave someone the account info? Who knows, but it's not something I should be liable for because the account I gave to you was clean.

And for fortnite tracker, you're right "this could literally be anyone." But if something happened to the account because of something you did or from something that happened when you owned the account, then that is not my problem because I had no affiliation with it. As far as I am concerned you are trying to do a chargeback scam on me for an account I gave to you that is fully legitimate.

Macroturtle · Sep 7, 2018

Just because I DID have full access doesnt mean the account cannot be reclaimed.

If you actually checked the pictures i sent, (4th pic) you could see a form to recover the password for a mail.ru account IF you have the necessary information (none of which was given to me before or after the sale).

Anyway, if the account gets recovered, OBVIOUSLY the recovery phone and email will be changed. And since you say you dont know the secret answer to the account then welp, there goes all our recovery options right? Funny how you can go on about how the account was fully secure under me when you couldnt even give me all of the info, especially the one piece of information that could potentially help me get the account back. Oh well.

Anyway, for all its worth, the account could or could not have been recovered by you, I dont know. What I do know for a fact is that you or any person for that matter, will never admit to this. So yeah, since I still don’t have access to the account, rather than just beating around the bush and wasting my time and energy on this dispute, ill rest my case here for now. I gave all the evidence i could and so all thats left is to wait for the admin’s reply on this.

Lenova · Sep 7, 2018

You have all the necessary information to recover the email because I gave you full access. Who has access to the name, surname, date of birth, secret question or email for contact? YOU. You could easily check all that info. Furthermore, if I even made an inquiry to recover the email an email would be sent to you saying that I am trying to recover the account. Furthermore, The reason I did not give you any secret question, any recovery emails, or any recovery phones was because there was NONE.

I will never admit to something that I did not do. And you are just a scammer trying to chargeback.

doomedtofail · Sep 7, 2018

[MENTION=737018]Lenova[/MENTION] are you original owner? Can't you just recover the account and return it to Macroturtle. No matter what information is changed the original owner CAN ALWAYS recover the account. So recover the account and post the support ticket screenshot here to prove you had to recover it, to return it.

Lenova · Sep 7, 2018

Gladly. I am in the process of recovering the account and will post additional information as well as screenshots shortly.

Macroturtle · Sep 7, 2018

[MENTION=737018]Lenova[/MENTION] Yes, its true I had the name, surname and i even changed the recovery email for the account when it was still in my possession. However, as I said, and i dont know how many times I have to keep repeating this, but not all the info of the account was given to me. You said you didnt know the secret question/answer, so how do you expect me to change it to my own if I couldnt even answer the previous one?

Furthermore, the form for recovery for mail.ru accounts CLEARLY STATES the instructions: “specify the details of your box THE WAY YOU REMEMBER THEM.” This mesns that ANYONE with previous access to the account can still recover it. Also from this, I obviously would have been able to access the account again IF I knew the password specified at registration AND the answer to a secret question. Unfortunately, and for the last time, none of these were disclosed to me.

Lenova · Sep 7, 2018

I did not provide the answer to a secret question because I never had one on file in the first place. The only recovery/security tools I had in place were mobile security and recovery email, all of which that I took off when giving the account to you.

The only thing that I would be at fault for on the password recovery form for not telling you is "when the mail was registered" but I would gladly have told you had you asked. Regardless, I have never encountered this issue before so I did not know you could use that specific question to recover the account. As for the password specified at registration I actually gave it to you during the MM transaction, but I was unaware that it would be changed by our middleman. Here, this is a screenshot of what I originally gave to our MM (https://imgur.com/a/B8V2sDk). But again, had you asked I would give it to you.

As of right now I'm in the process of getting the accounts back. And will post what the support ticket tells me soon.

Lenova · Sep 9, 2018

I was able to recover the account. Castrosko, another epicnpc seller was the original owner of the account and he helped me to restore the account. I logged into the email and found that there was suspicious activity with 3 different PSN account linkages. A guy named Savage linked his account initially, then it was unlinked and a guy named Hamad linked his account, and then another guy named Mr linked his account. Furthermore there were over 10 emails to change the account password for both the email domain and epic games. Also, when I initially recovered the email account on September 7, 2018 someone ended up logging back in and changing the password again via phone authentication. So someone still had access to the account that was neither me nor Castrosko. Furthermore, with linkages to PSN happening it means that someone is also playing on the fortnite account I sold to Macroturtle.

What I suppose happened with Macroturtle is one of two things:

1.Macroturtle gave or sold the account info to someone and got scammed because they ended up not paying him
2.Now he is trying to put the blame on me by saying I changed the passwords and security info when it was actually the person he sold it to.
(Which I would not be surprised because he also sells fortnite accounts on other websites such as oguser)

or

1.Macroturtle has access to the account and is fabricating this whole situation by saying I recovered the account so that he can initiate a charge back and scam me for the account.

In both these cases I am not responsible for you losing the account. I am not responsible if SOMEONE ELSE scammed you. No matter what the reason is, it is very scummy of you Macroturtle to do these things. Only me and Castrosko have access to the account and we both never attempted to recover the account and even we struggled to access the account because someone other than us tried to change the account info.

Evidence is here alongside a screenshot of having to contact email company to recover email: https://imgur.com/a/fMPj600

If there is any more evidence you need @doomedtofail please let me know.

Your move, @Macroturtle.

Lenova · Sep 9, 2018

Also, another thing I'd like to add is in reference to the fortnitetracker evidence I used. Remember when I said that the person playing on the account is from Saudi Arabia? On August 23, 2018 the email was linked to a Samsung Galaxy Notebook with a certain ip address. If you then look up that ip address it leads you to a location on saudi arabia. I live in the United States. Had I linked the email to one of my devices the ip address should be somewhere in the US. But it isn't.

Additionally, when I checked fortnite tracker on September 6 the person using the account was in Saudi Arabia. And the same person who linked the email on August 23, 2018 is also in Saudi arabia. So what this suggests is that the same person using the account from August 23, 2018 was still the same person using the account till September 6, 2018. But according to Macroturtle, August 27, 2018 was the date that I "recovered" the account because that was when he initiated the chargeback on me. However, again, the same person who had the account on September 6, 2018 was the same person who had the account on August 23. And that person I would presume is you Macroturtle.

With that said, I have never had access to the account from the duration of July 27, 2018 - September 9, 2018. And I have reason to believe Macroturtle had access to the account all along and is a chargeback scammer.

Here's evidence for that: https://imgur.com/a/0Pa4bm5

Something you should consider when evaluating this.

Macroturtle · Sep 9, 2018

Firstly, i hope i make things clear and say that i have NEVER tried to scam anyone, be that here on epicnpc or even on the other site you have mentioned.

As such,i will address all your claims with this post.

I have never sold or even listed the account. You can check my threads on the other forum and you will see that I never posted the account anywhere/gave any info on the account to anyone.

Furthermore, I told you that I had lost access to the account i thought was fully secure under me which would only mean 2 things:
1) the account was recovered
2) the account was somehow *******

in any case, i saw the previous owner, lenova was inactive for 3 weeks and we never messaged each other before the deal, i simply clicked the tg link and we did the deal with useeds as our mm. Given this, i thought it would be futile to contact the previous owner. At this point, obviously for me, the only logical thing to do was try and get my money back through a chargeback. I know this whole thing could have been avoided had i attempted to message you first and im sorry if this was so “scummy” of me.

Again your fortnite tracker claim is invalid because of the reasons I mentioned earlier and that you first mentioned that the account was tagged for CROATIA not SAUDI ARABIA. Additionally, if you check my epicnpc profile you will see that i am from the Philippines. The admin or mods can verify this, as i frequently access epicnpc through my phone (iphone). I do not own a galaxy notebook.

I hope this clears everything up.

Lenova · Sep 10, 2018

1) The account could not have been recovered by its original owner because I never attempted to gain access to it after I sold it.
2)The account has never been ******* and have been playing with it since Season 1 with no issues.
3) My fortnite claim is still valid because it solidifies that I haven't had access to the account when you suggested that I "recovered it". Doesn't matter if you're from the phillipines or not, like I said, you could have sold the account to someone who lives in Saudi Arabia and he scammed you. Why else would in the span of a couple weeks the passwords have changed 10 times? You were probably fighting over the account with the person you sold it to for control of the account. And you don't own a galaxy? Fair enough. Neither do I. So it fits even more that you tried to sell the account to someone and you were bad at handling the transaction and they scammed you. I even see that you've bought multiple accounts on oguser and epicnpc, you expect me to believe that you play on all of them? You're most likely a reseller and in this particular account you're trying to get it for free.

Also, I find it hard to believe that you haven't posted the account anywhere when the account was owned by several people after I sold it to you. How is it possible for someone else to own the account besides you if I never attempted to recover the account in the first place?

Dude just admit that you tried selling the account and tried blaming me when someone else scammed you. Or you're just trying to do a paypal chargeback.

And no, it does not clear everthing up. Why is it that the owner is the same person on August 23, 2018, as it is on September 6, 2018? But you alleged that on August 27, 2018 that I somehow recovered the account? How is that possible? And don't say "it was recovered" because it wasn't. If you look on the emails I posted, the password was not changed from August 25 to September 7 (The day that I recover the email). If I recovered the account don't you think that I would change the password?

Or another question, why is it that the person who owns the account and email keep unlinking and linking to different psn's and devices? Why has the password been changed approximately 10 times in the time period of when I sold it to you and when I recovered it?

There is so much suspicious activity when you owned the account.

Like I sad before, if you end of selling to someone and they scammed you how am I responsible for that?
Or better yet, don't try to call me the scammer if you still had access to the account.

All you're doing is trying to deceive me and other users. You're a scammer plain and simple. You can cry all you want about "I have NEVER tried to scam anyone" but from the evidence I gathered it says otherwise. And like the scammer you are, when you're backed into a corner you refuse to accept that you've been caught. And instead of admitting you've been had you try to call me the scammer. Pathetic.

EuroBoost · Sep 10, 2018

I would add that no one but me could restore the email.

Macroturtle · Sep 10, 2018

Okay so can we please quit it with all the “could haves” and look at the facts.

Yes, I do buy multiple accounts, both here and on the other forum and I actually play on MOST of them. The account that you sold me was actually one of the accounts i played on frequently, but not all the time. Just because i changed the password to the account a lot doesn’t mean i sold it to anyone. Furthermore, i constantly was linking and unlinking my psn account because it was my only way of getting vbucks on the accounts that I want to buy vbucks on. I cant do this through pc as obviously its restricted by country depending on the first billing address the account was used on. Aside from this, you will find no such thread of me listing the account for sale nor will you find me reporting anything about getting scammed for SELLING an account. You will find multiple threads of me getting beamed for buying accounts though.

Next, where the hell did you get August 27, because the date I opened the chargeback on Paypal was on September 6. You can see that on the email sent to me by paypal. The date should be the same on yours.

http://www.imgur.com/a/YLC4jur

Furthermore, I told you in my first reply that I was playing on the account earlier that week (This was on september 2 or 3 depending on where you live) when i got logged out. You made this post 3 days ago on September 7 and from your other post, you contacted the original owner to recover the account either yesterday or today (Sept. 9 or 10). This would mean that the account was recovered and somehow re-recovered by the hacker using the samsung device on the same date. At the end of all this, how does this even tie into me still having access to the account when i issued the chargeback again?

I don’t know the reason to you intentionally manipulate these dates or if this was just a honest mistake. Either way, I dont care. Now, we could literally sit adound on here all day pointing fingers at each other OR finally resolve this. As it stands, I have the money and Lenova has the account back. If you do want to resolve this and come to agreement let me know.

stree · Sep 10, 2018

Maybe it worth to post action list from mail.ru for last 2-3 months.
They have such option in password & security section. Maybe admins will find any matches.

EuroBoost · Sep 10, 2018

I do not believe that it was your PSN. You can log into the Psn account and make a screenshot of your nickname on Ps4? Do you speak Arabic? I think no

Lenova · Sep 10, 2018

@Macroturtle, you don't realize that you just exposed yourself.

September 6 was the day that I recieved an email from paypal saying that the dispute was closed. However, you should know that paypal gives you 10 days from the time of the dispute till the case is resolved. September 6 minus 10 days is August 27, 2018. I have also verified that via phone call to Paypal. On paypal resolution center it doesn't say August 27, 2018 for the chargeback because it only shows the last time the case was updated which was September 6, 2018.

So with that out of the way, why is it that I was chargebacked August 27, 2018 when you just said you had the account till September 2nd? Forget that hacker BS you're on about because why would you chargeback me when you still have access to the account? I'll tell you why, it's because you are trying to do a chargeback scam and get the account as well as the money you owe me.

Also, don't think you won the chargeback case on paypal either because that email you got by paypal was because I reopened the case on September 6, 2018 and they are re-reviewing the case. So expect something within the next 30 days from them.

Here's the image saying the case was closed on September 6, 2018: https://imgur.com/a/JGhxBK7

Everyone who uses paypal knows they give 10 days for the other user to respond. They don't just close the case immediately after it is opened lol.

But here's another big point to consider, and @stree I can't thank you enough for the tip. What I found pretty much solidifes my claims of Macroturtle selling the account.
With that said, you're right @Macroturtle let's stop with the "could have" because I now have factual evidence. Here's a list of all the different ip addresses that have owned the account since I sold it
to Macroturtle which I was able to see in account security settings.

Image: https://imgur.com/a/F2VKrEt

On July 27, 2018 the ip of the user traces back to the Phillipines.
On August 10, 2018 the ip address then shifts to somewhere in Kuwait.
Then on August 13, the ip address then shifts to someone in Saudi Arabia.
Till September 8, when it is recovered by Castrosko which makes sense because the ip traces back to Estonia. (I blocked out his ip address because his does not need to be included)
And then the last ip is me who is in the United States.

The only thing to make of this is that it seems Macroturtle sold the account to someone in Kuwait then it was sold again to someone in Saudi Arabia. Then on August 27, 2018 Macroturtle decides to chargeback me and tries to claim I recovered the account.

Why do I say this? Well consider that Macroturtle waited 17 days from the day he "lost" the account to issue a chargeback? That's interesting. Macroturtle definitely sold the account and there's no denying it because why else would he even wait that long? Macroturtle didn't even attempt to recover it at that time with any recovery options otherwise I would see two differnet Ip addresses accessing the account on the same day. So why didn't he attempt to recover the account? Because he sold the account to someone. Also, I can tell other people had access to the account besides Macroturtle because on August 10 and on August 17, phone numbers were changed and 2 factor authentication was disabled. Furthermore, the numbers added on August 10 and August 17 differ from the initial phone number you put when you had access to the account on July 27, 2018. Or am I supposed to believe you moved to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, own 3 different phones, and have internet contracts with 3 different internet companies? lol. Again, there's just no way in denying that you sold the account and you are trying to profit from selling the account and getting your money back from me because there is no way anyone besides me and castrosko could have gained access to the account unless you sold the account and gave them info to the account.

But wait, didn't you also claim earlier than YOU owned the account till September 2/3 and that YOU are in the phillipines? But according to the email, a person in
Saudi Arabia was playing on the account. You never owned the account till September 2/3 because you sold it on August 10. I just caught you in a huge lie Macroturtle.

That being said, I don't owe you a refund either because you lost access to the account via selling it to someone else.

But ohhh, youre going to say there aren't any threads of you selling the account so it proves you didn't sell it. That's a weak argument because the ip addresses and your lack of actions to even try to recover the account say otherwise. Just because you did a transaction that is not able to be looked up on the internet doesn't mean it never happened.

Another thing to consider is this. Here are the email before I sold the account to Macroturtle even going as far as to April. You can see that there's nothing out of the ordinary other than the password change I did as I was about to sell the account on July 27, 2018. There's payment receipts from epic, linkages to my psn account, linkages to twitch, etc. Having said that I have owned the account for a long time with no issues. I find it funny that circumstances changed all of a sudden when Macroturtle owned the account.

Images here: https://imgur.com/a/If6bzcv

In conclusion, there's two ways you can look at this that without a shadow of a doubt incriminate Macroturtle.

1.Macroturtle is a chargeback scammer because ACCORDING TO HIM he has owned the account till September 2/3. However, he issued a chargeback on August 27 via paypal. Why would he chargeback at that time when he still owned the account lol? Did he somehow know 5 days in advance he'd supposedly "lose access" to the account? Regardless, following his claim he owned the account, he fraudulently issued a chargeback.

or

2.Macroturtle is still a chargeback scammer because he sold the account on August 10, 2018. How do I know this? According to the ip addresses that have logged into the email, they switched
from philipines on July 27,2018 (When I sold him the account) to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia on August 10 and August 13. However, how can that be possible if Macroturtle is in the phillipines? Additionally, let's say Macroturtle was hacked, why would he wait 2 weeks to chargeback? And also, if he was hacked why was there no attempt to regain the account on August 10 and August 13. Surely you would see conflicting ip addresses on the same day trying to gain access to the account right? But you don't. Macroturtle so easily let someone gain access to the account. Here's why, MACROTURTLE SOLD THE ACCOUNT. Macroturtle wants to make money from selling the account I gave him, then he is trying to charge me back so that he scams me of the money he paid me for the account so that he makes a large amount of profit.

Look at these arguments and how the evidences expose Macroturtle for the liar that he is. Don't try to scam me and others and pretend like you didn't. It's just pathetic how you come up with these BS excuses to try and make it seem like you're the good guy. You're exposed Macroturtle. It's futile to keep claiming anymore that you aren't a scammer. You're pathetic and constantly try to manipulate and decieve others. It's over Macroturtle, there's no defense you can make after this because I just refuted all of them and none of your arguments add up that you've made so far.

This is no longer a game of pointing fingers, it's an issue of you not admitting to your faults.

Again, I'm not responsible for you losing the account for the simple fact that either 1) you owned the account all along or 2) tried to sell the account and scam both me and your buyer.

Checkmate, @Macroturtle.

I leave the rest up to you @EpicNPC on what to do with this chargebacking scamming scum.

@castrosko, thank you for your help in recovering the accounts and exposing Macroturtle.
@stree thank you for the tip on checking the actions list that helped me find the ip addresses

Epic 1NPC · Sep 11, 2018

July 27 - Lenova sells Fornite account to Macroturtle
Sept 6 - Paypal chargeback is opened

Macroturtle claims the fortnite account was recalled.
The fortnite email vip*****[email protected] belongs to castrosko
Acccount recovered and returned to Lenova by castrosko.

As Stree sugested, the email activity log should tell us everything we need to know about who recovered the account.

July 27 to Aug 7 - Philippines (Macroturtle)
Aug 10 - Kuwait

Events for Aug 10
Login
Phone added 9656571****
Phone removed 63917543****
Password changed
2FA enabled: 9656571****

On Aug 10 the account was lost. I checked the IP addresses and phone numbers recorded to this account from Aug 10 til now and was unable to find any members here with that info.

As you can see from the logs, on Aug 10th someone logged in and then changed all the info. They did not reset or recover the email account, they simply logged in a changed everything.

Macroturtle how could this be if you didn't give the email password to someone? As you can see, you had your phone number set as the recovery phone number. How could someone access the email account without you giving them access?

Epic 1NPC · Sep 12, 2018

@Macroturtle, please reply to the above questions.

Also if you check Sept 8th where castrosko recovered the email account, you can see he had to "restore" the password first before gaining access to the account.

On Aug 10th, the day the account email was stolen, there is no "restore" event. This means the person simply logged in and changed everything.

Lenova · Sep 12, 2018

@EpicNPC, he also has a second account that got banned for scamming on epicnpc which I found when I looked at Macroturtle's multiple accounts: https://www.epicnpc.com/members/772278-jhigzther99. Having said that, Macroturtle has a history of scamming.

I don't think Macroturtle will respond because he will have to admit that he lied the entire time and that he is a scammer. I have recovered my account back and Macroturtle's bank forced paypal to give Macroturtle his refund. So my question is this @Macroturtle, why would you try to scam people when you would just end up back where you started? I'm sure that the guy Macroturtle sold the account to will also issue a chargeback on Macroturtle because I recovered the account. So not only will you lose the money you gained from selling my account, you will also lose access to my account. You would have made 0 profit from this.

I think a ban should be issued and it's sad that someone in the phillipines would do this to me because I myself am filipino. Such a shame.

Epic 1NPC · Sep 12, 2018

That alert only triggered yesterday, so we were unaware this account belonged to Macroturtle.

It's clear now Macroturtle is a scammer and has no desire to resolve this issue, he's been banned.

Scammers info:
[email protected]
jhigzther99
[email protected]
[email protected]
Macroturtle#6359

We'll consider this closed as Lenova was able to successfully recover the account with castrosko's help.

Paypal Chargeback Scam by Macroturtle

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