I have been scammed by user Scourge

viermart · Jun 19, 2019

I will just leave VIDEO of all the communication to verify what I say, with the seller directly and on the trade with the middleman.

In resume he offer me a YouTube account for 2500 U$S, I offer him 1350 U$S and he tell me yes. (At that moment I didn t saw it suspicous but now I understand why he sold so cheap).

1-After that I told him we need use a middleman, he told me yes. The middleman that was working on the deal and did a great job it was ARMIK.

2-I transfer the BTC and I got the login information for the account.

3- I got onto the account and everything was fine. The day after I got an email from google the account was recovered.

4- After that I can login to the brand account but the youtube account is not still there. When I got into the account I saw the original owner recover it. Also there is a login history that can be checked where it is show the recover moment of the account.

5- The answer of seller it was first deny, after I submit the proof and middle man check it he told me he buy it from other person. After days with no solution he told me his TOS is not giving back money.
I do not know if I will recover the money, I understand its not the responsability of the forum. But I want to aware the community of this kind of people. This is really a community and business should be good for all. This kind of person is TOXIC for a community. And at least it should take responsability on some way. I even can not use the account one day.

At this moment I sent 1350 U$S to the seller and have nothing. The only reply I get from him is he can not do anything, and I feel he got angry with me because just asking something I paid with. Put in my pleace and pay for something and 4 days after you do not have it anymore. 1350 U$S is big money.

Scourge · Jun 19, 2019

I’ll reply here with exactly what I stated in our TG chat after he said there was an issue:

Don’t lie bud. The middleman got the account May 20th. You took 4 days to get the payment out, during which time the account was secure. You didn’t report an issue until May 28th, so you had 4 days to secure the account and you didn’t. You getting hacked isn’t my problem. ARMIK was able to log into the google account with the same exact password that he initially provided you. You didn’t secure anything and you not understanding how to secure an account that I sell you isn’t my issue. I purchased the account May 13th. You’re saying the account was stolen even though you have absolutely no proof that it was. How can an account be recovered if it was on a brand new Google account ARMIK created for you?

Regardless, you received what you paid for as promised. As stated on all my posts and on my profile, I do not provide any sort of warranties on any purchases and will not offer a refund under any circumstance. This is your problem, not mine. You agree to my terms and acknowledge that you agree with them by dealing with me, as stated in my TOS.

Like I said, I can’t do anything besides wait for a response from the user who sold it to me.

Here’s anything new I have to say regarding my claims before and any new claims of his:
The seller who sold me the account did just recently respond to me and didn’t give me a clear response of whether he would refund or not, more-so that he would resolve any issues in the future with channels I would purchase from him later on. In fact, the seller who sold it to me (autsin) has a dispute open against him by MrBom because a few of the channels he sold to MrBom were recalled. Clearly, he doesn’t get his channels in a reliable way/from a reliable source (this was all done via on-site TG, MMed by ARMIK). If I had known this prior to reselling the channel, I would have stated that the seller I bought it from had a high recall rate, but at the time, he didn’t, so I didn’t see any red flags. Now, as aforestated, I have my TOS clearly defined in my signature, which is there for anybody to read, and on all of my listings. I do not do refunds under any circumstances and what happens with the account after I sell it is on the new buyer, not on me.

Regarding your claim about my price being suspicious - it wasn’t whatsoever. I tend to overprice all of my items, just a marketing strategy because you never know who might come by in need of that niche, but I negotiate out all of my prices. I still profited from that deal, which is all I need to close a sale.

Scourge · Jun 19, 2019

@EpicNPC or @EpicNPC CM User displayed account credentials publicly in the video. You guys might want to set that link to viewable by staff only; not sure if he's ever changed the credentials or even attempted to secure the account.

viermart · Jun 19, 2019

Scourge, you are doing a big effort to get out the responsability. And you as seller should be responsable with your clients if you want to go long term.
From what I read to you is clear the guy sold it to you is selling stolen accounts. I can not go against him, this is a chain. I am asking you to take responsability of the account and you ask the person you bought from.

You see your logic? You are telling is my fault because I didn´t " secure " the account. If I secure or not the account is the same, the account was recovered by the original owner as you can see probably he put in contact with support and give proof he was the original owner.

The same the credential that are public here, the brand account that I got is empty, the value of that brand account is 0.

The problem here is you buy from someone an stolen account. Now you do not want to take the responsability. And is fine. But you should think the way you are acting is not the best for your business or the community. Problem is business is usual, I understand it. What I see is quite bad from your end is your effor to take out the responsability and do not try at least to find a solution or to find any agreement. If I would know these was bought from a suspicous person I would never done the business with you.

viermart · Jun 19, 2019

"If I had known this prior to reselling the channel, I would have stated that the seller I bought it from had a high recall rate, but at the time, he didn’t, so I didn’t see any red flags. "

You didn t recall anything. I buy trusting in you and the community. Now things changed and you still want to take out the responsability. As I say you are seeing the wrong way this. You just want to find a way to " not lose money" no matter if that affects the reputation of this forum, of this community or anything.

I understand the main problem is buy an account from a user that sell stolen accounts. But this is how things are, I need to claim you. Probably you get a good benefit on the re sell. You are so selfish that the only you are thinking is not lose. Where I lose 1350 U$S and you do not matter, as you do not matter how you affect the reputation of this forum. You should be more responsable with the community and think more long term.

viermart · Jun 19, 2019

I have my TOS clearly defined in my signature, which is there for anybody to read, and on all of my listings. I do not do refunds under any circumstances and what happens with the account after I sell it is on the new buyer, not on me.

You need to review that. These is a community. You just can not obligate people not to do claims. We are on 2019 bud. If you want to be healthy for the community and see things on long term you need to see your customer as a long term partner. Not as a hole where you will just steal as much money as you can not concerning about it.

viermart · Jun 19, 2019

At the end of the day the view you are seeing this situation and the posture ends injuring the community and the site itself. Is not the best way to go I can assure you that. I have been many years on YouTube and digital assets business. And you need to be responsible with the community and see your clients as long term partners.

Scourge · Jun 19, 2019

viermart said:
If I would know these was bought from a suspicous person I would never done the business with you.

If I had known it was being sold by a suspicious person I wouldn't have even tried to resell it. Previously, I never had any issues with the user.

viermart said:
Scourge, you are doing a big effort to get out the responsability.

Yes, because my TOS clearly state that if you deal with me, I am not responsible for what happens to the account. This is stated clear as day and you scroll past it about 4-6 times in the video you recorded. I will not claim responsibility for something I resell as I have no control over what the original creator will do - that goes for any account.

viermart said:
You need to review that. These is a community. You just can not obligate people not to do claims. We are on 2019 bud. If you want to be healthy for the community and see things on long term you need to see your customer as a long term partner. Not as a hole where you will just steal as much money as you can not concerning about it.

So you're saying you completely disregarded my TOS and went ahead with this deal knowing that I will not claim any responsibility or provide any refund. That's completely on you. Let me give you a real life example that might get through to you: That's like buying a microwave from the store, heating up food and leaving your fork in it, and it hence damaging your microwave. Now, if you had read through all of their instructions and safety hazards, that wouldn't have happened. Hell, maybe you did read them and went through with your idea (as you did in this case). You take it back into the store to ask for a replacement or a refund. Well, that's completely up to the cashier/manager of that store. If your microwave had no warranty, its completely on their good will/conscience to offer some sort of remedy, which in this case translates to you asking me to "be healthy for the community and see things on long term you need to see your customer as a long term partner." They can either decide to offer remedy, or not, you don't play any deciding factor. In this case, as I've said multiple times and you've acknowledged, my terms were clearly stated and you proceeded regardless. This is a business, and I'm not getting setback financially due to you complaining about ignoring clearly written statements. This isn't the sort of business where you view clients as long-term partners - that's not how the social media business works, at least not how I work. Sorry!

EpicNPC CM · Jun 19, 2019

@viermart how long did you have the account before it was recalled?

Scourge · Jun 20, 2019

EpicNPC CM said:
@viermart how long did you have the account before it was recalled?

I provided a breakdown of the exact timeline further above.

viermart · Jun 21, 2019

@EpicNPC CM I am an influencer as you saw I own several channels (mora than 10) I pay for the account and I didnt get to the account for 2-3 days, but I never saw or use the account. The middle man can verify I took some days to get into the account. I can even upload 1 video or do anything, when I get to see the account the login credential works (the brand account is OK) but the youtube account was not there.. I never get what I paid for

viermart · Jun 21, 2019

I explain I am influencer for you to understand why I took some days to pay and also to get the account. I manage a lot of accounts and upload a lot of content onto my channels so I do not have many time left.

EpicNPC CM · Jun 24, 2019

To summarize :

Scourge sells account to Viermart through TG on may 20th.
Payment isn't sent until May 24th. Viermart received the account.
4 days later account is recovered by original owner. Viermart opens dispute.
Scourge contacts person he bought it from, who also has another dispute for recalled accounts.

Correct?

Scourge · Jun 24, 2019

EpicNPC CM said:
To summarize :

Scourge sells account to Viermart through TG on may 20th.
Payment isn't sent until May 24th. Viermart received the account.
4 days later account is recovered by original owner. Viermart opens dispute.
Scourge contacts person he bought it from, who also has another dispute for recalled accounts.

Correct?

Yes. All the while all my terms listed in my profile signature were read and disregarded, as previously stated by the buyer in this dispute. The buyer also never changed the credentials ARMIK provided him and did not secure the google account or transfer the channel to his own email.

Edit: For your third point, account is presumed to be recovered by original owner. ARMIK suggested this as similar types of videos to the previously uploaded old ones began to be posted.

viermart · Jun 24, 2019

I never see the YouTube channel on the account. I get to the brand account but with no YouTube channel.
The brand account with no YouTube Channel value is 0. Why you blame me for not secure an account that do not value anything?

viermart · Jun 24, 2019

Scourge sells account to Viermart through TG on may 20th. Correct
Payment isn't sent until May 24th. Viermart received the account. Not correct, I never recibe the youtube account, I got a brand account with no youtube account inside.
4 days later account is recovered by original owner. Viermart opens dispute. No it was not 4 days after I receive it, when I open it was already recovered.
Scourge contacts person he bought it from, who also has another dispute for recalled accounts.

Scourge · Jun 24, 2019

viermart said:
Why you blame me for not secure an account that do not value anything?

Are you kidding me? If you don't think the account is worth anything why did you even make this such a big deal? You have to secure the account so that the channel on the account is safe.

viermart · Jun 25, 2019

You do not understand. THE BRAND ACCOUNT WITH NO YOUTUBE CHANNEL HAVE NOT VALUE. Is just a GMAIL account, NO CHANNEL no VALUE!

ARMIK · Jun 25, 2019

Not to side with anyone, but viermart, you logged on the account 4 days after you received it. When you messaged me about the issue, i went and tried to log in, and you didn't even change the password after like a 5 days or so.

You were supposed to log in and confirm the account the first day like every other buyer does. Then you would have time to move it to your account, to secure the channel and such.

That 'account restored' thing that you're talking about, I've checked a couple of my own channels and they had the same message in the google account page. There used to be a wave of accounts being disabled and then restored automatically, perhaps that gmail account was also hit by that way.

I'm not trying to shift reality, the channel was indeed gone from the account when I logged in to see what happened, but that was after like 4 days since I sent the info to the buyer. And the seller that sold it to Scourge has to be responsible first.

@Scourge, who did you buy this channel from? The person that sold it to you needs to tell us what happened to the channel.

viermart · Jun 25, 2019

ARMIK I pay 1300 U$S for a Channel that someone restored. How would you be if you pay 1300 U$S and you do no have anything? Not having the channel is not my fault. I pay for something I do not have, is unsense you are making me responsable of it. I have no responsability of this. Please put on my side for a minute. It seems the seller that sell me was scammed by the person he buy from. But I am not responsable for it. Nobody told me this was a stolen account. I buy and pay on good faith
I understand ARMIK that you did many bussiness with the seller and here it is my first business but for not you just can not blame on something I have nothing to do with.

viermart · Jun 25, 2019

You blame me for not secure the account. But that is not the problem. I have a life, I have other business. nobody told me I need to secure it the first day. Aynway that wouldn t change anything, because the account was restored. So if I pay a car and i do not go to take it the first day I pay on the day number 3 the originall owner will restore it and I will lose the money? No, that is unsense and unfear, you are not putting on my pleace.

ARMIK · Jun 25, 2019

I didn't blame you. I said that I'm on a neutral side and I understand both seller and buyer. Seller sent me the channel in good condition. It was sent to you and 4 days after you say the channel is gone.

But if you buy a 1300$ channel then just at Lea St secure it properly so that we have that question out of the way.

ARMIK · Jun 25, 2019

It took you 2-3 days to send the payment. All this time I had the channel on my Gmail account (plus combine the time that seller had it on his email while he was selling). Then all of a sudden when I sent you the info the channel is gone.

Understand seller as well, he is frustrated as well.

Again I'm not telling this to protect the seller. I just want the original owner to explain the source of channels. If it's autsin it means he has been selling stolen/hacked channels as there are at least 3 more cases where channels he sold got recovered.

Scoruge bought another channel from him recently. If it's the same seller that sold him the channel in question means a scourge continued buying stolen channels knowingly

Scourge · Jun 25, 2019

Yup @ARMIK, I purchased this one from Autsin. The most recent channel I purchased from him I did it to see what would happen with it (this was like several days ago?). I have absolutely no intentions on reselling it and I want to see whether or not it will have any issues, hence why I specifically asked him to give me a full warranty on this newest one (since I now know it’s risky).

ARMIK · Jun 25, 2019

@Scourge, thanks for clarification.

I guess it's time for @autsin to explain how come so many channels have been recovered.

autsin · Jun 26, 2019

alright let me explain what happened no one scammed anyone also listen google recently removed and basically restored so many channels back to the owners and removed the instant transfer thing thats the main reason why most of the channels are knocking off they are doing a restoratio basically nobody has a tos that the channel they sell and they would refund for that because we are not the main owner we are just resellers we buy stuff from people and sell that to other for some less but profitable money for us also secondly i bought that channel from someone and i sold that to scourge i sold him channels via which he made huge profits and some gets pulled back i never charged him like 10grands for a channel i took the price considering how much i paid for it and how much i am getting that for i wasnt taking in consideration the price the buyer might make or end up using that for himself all i told him that this happens and channel gets pulled back from the original buyer who has the mail email we as sellers do not have the mail email we get the channel transferred on our email just like you got your channel @viermart AND SECONDLY I SOLD MY CHANNEL TO SCOURGE SO THERES NO WAY WE HAD SCAMMED YOU IN ANY WAY just take this in consideraton also please everything is specified before sales ask for refund and everything if the property isnt under protection just dont buy it who stopped you to buy from us? we are just legit sellers who pay and sell you know how much loss i had after google ended up doing this ? i can just give you numbers thats all

autsin · Jun 26, 2019

some people do haveintentions to sell and theres bunch of other people who sell the channel and then contact support and stuff to get their channel back this is not us as we arent main owners because to contact support they will have to answer so many things only main owners can not us so theres no way WE IN ANY WAY HAS DONE THIS secondly i am not linked to this sale i am linked to the channel that i sold to scourge and i wont take anyones side here just to say hey the buyer should get his money back or the seller shouldnt pay him back i sold the channel to scourge thats it i have no relation whatsoever he does with that channel also scourge its not like this i ve sold you channel for the first time also reading your tos you have no refund thing but when it comes to buying channel from me why are you asking refund ? i sold you this channel for 400 dollars which is like not even 50 percent of the amount you are selling this considering the seller might be a scammer but this was all google doin so why did you tag me in this ? as you know what things are happening currently i have been busy and theres so many people who bought the channel from me but their stuff got recovered back cuz they know the risk and i sell my stuff cheap so they become something worth risking

autsin · Jun 26, 2019

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

autsin · Jun 26, 2019

also a note to buyer we do know what mney is we respect that alot i am sorry personally for your loss but please show lil grief for us too we lost thousand of dollars because f those vicious people who sell and charge back your 1300 usd and for us the loss is like 5k because we might have bought more channel from that particular owner and lost our stuff too please be calm money is important i know but losses are everywhere midman just did his job to secure the deal and he did this perfectly hes the most trusted person here with rules upforward if any buyer has questions ask the seller or the midman for specifications about the transaction and risk involved i am sorry for your loss

Scourge · Jun 26, 2019

autsin said:
is this the same channel that i sold you few days back or the channel back than the recent channel because you did message me 2 days ago to talk to you about selling you more channels if i have more and i told you ill add you on discord beause what google did with the brand thing this week and this thing is since june 19 so i think this is the old one not the recent channel can you please share the link of the channel @ARMIK thats sold to the buyer in this case

This report is about the Dazlor Lifestyle health channel (monetized 82k subs). Our transaction from May 13th here: https://www.epicnpc.com/conversations/new-trade-guardian-transaction-12082.1475889/

I resold it to viermart.

autsin · Jun 26, 2019

also i personally buy channels from sellers just like scourge or any reseller does we dont know what risk is there because most of the market is either selling dead channels or stolen channels nobody is making channels outta nowhere if the channel has no security buy it as risks involved if it does they why worries also secondly we do not who is scammer who is not we buy channels hear the situation whats going on and pay accordingly for that thats all we dont have any partnership with any sort of scammer gang or such we pay for the channels and just like you had a loss we do too we have budget of buying stuff and if some amount goes to loss we cant continue i told scourge i myself keep the channel for few days or week and then sell it here so that its safe but we dont know what the person/main owner would do every channel i sell is within my possession for like a week or more and then i sell the channel when i am free from my work irl

autsin · Jun 26, 2019

okay this is the only channel got pulled back other than the other channels which i sold to you and were bigger than these right? see the buyer should focus here becuase if i was the scammer i wouldve picked the best one tht i sold to scourge not the channel which i sold to him for 450 usd

autsin · Jun 26, 2019

also security is first there are so many ways people have secure chnnels why channels with us stay securely because we take every measure before and after getting the channel but when it ccomes to main owners intention we cannot control it we are just mere humans who can pay for the price not for the owners intentions

SaltnVinegar · Jun 29, 2019

Austin has been banned for failing to resolve a previous dispute.

Sorry for your loss.

https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/seller-autsin-scam.1470417/

Epic 1NPC · Jul 23, 2019

@Scourge please refund the full payment to @viermart. You can dispute the $400 payment against autsin.

The channel was stolen. There is a "My channel was hacked" video uploaded 6 days ago and you can clearly see the real owner is posting new videos again.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcOmOMnn-6nxw_GFX9fn1ww

You can't make profit off a stolen account. If a full refund is not issued in 48 hrs, Scourge will also be banned. Your TOS is not relevant when an account is proven to be stolen. We do not provide sellers with loopholes to sell stolen accounts.

Scourge · Jul 23, 2019

EpicNPC said:
You can dispute the $400 payment against autsin.

How do you suppose I do that?

EpicNPC said:
The channel was stolen. There is a "My channel was hacked" video uploaded 6 days ago and you can clearly see the real owner is posting new videos again.

I'm sorry but what? Just because a video was posted to it claiming it was hacked doesn't mean it was hacked. I can post a video claiming that on any of my channels - doesn't mean its true.
In addition to that, why would the video stating that be posted 6 days ago if the channel was "recovered" over a month ago and as ARMIK mentioned, videos began to be posted similar to the previous style videos on the channel. Where's the logic in that? That makes absolutely no sense.

EpicNPC said:
You can't make profit off a stolen account. If a full refund is not issued in 48 hrs, Scourge will also be banned. Your TOS is not relevant when an account is proven to be stolen. We do not provide sellers with loopholes to sell stolen accounts.

I purchased this account directly via your site, via your Trade Guardian system. You allowed me to unknowingly purchase a "stolen" account. I'm not taking a loss because of you trashing my TOS and stating they're not relevant without anything of the sort ever being mentioned in your site rules.

On top of that, this dispute was already resolved and closed down, I'm at no fault here. The buyer should know how to secure his purchased accounts rather than leaving the same username and password on them as when the MM hands them over.

The Integrity · Jul 23, 2019

The hacked video is not really that relevant. But the fact that the content and style is exactly the same, as well as the language and the person who's narrating the videos is the main indication that the channel is owned by the same person as months ago.

The price of $400 for an active, monetized and organic 90k channel is a huge red flag and should have been a good sign to stay away from it.

Scourge · Jul 23, 2019

The Integrity said:
The hacked video is not really that relevant. But the fact that the content and style is exactly the same, as well as the language and the person who's narrating the videos is the main indication that the channel is owned by the same person as months ago.

The content and style was already the same one month ago when this dispute was created and resolved. Why was this not taken into consideration then?

The Integrity said:
The price of $400 for an active, monetized and organic 90k channel is a huge red flag and should have been a good sign to stay away from it.

Not at all. It had poor demographics and wasn't growing too well at the time of purchase.

Epic 1NPC · Jul 23, 2019

How do you suppose I do that?

How did you pay autsin? If it was via Paypal or some other payment method, you can dispute the payment against him.

I'm sorry but what? Just because a video was posted to it claiming it was hacked doesn't mean it was hacked. I can post a video claiming that on any of my channels - doesn't mean its true.
In addition to that, why would the video stating that be posted 6 days ago if the channel was "recovered" over a month ago and as ARMIK mentioned, videos began to be posted similar to the previous style videos on the channel. Where's the logic in that? That makes absolutely no sense.

The channel was stolen. You can clearly see the 2 new videos, 11 hours ago and 3 days ago was created by the same person that posted the videos from months ago. This means the original owner has the account back. Whether or not this account was stolen is not up for debate, it was clearly stolen.

I purchased this account directly via your site, via your Trade Guardian system. You allowed me to unknowingly purchase a "stolen" account. I'm not taking a loss because of you trashing my TOS and stating they're not relevant without anything of the sort ever being mentioned in your site rules.

You are responsible for everything you post for sale on this site. Autsin is banned, if you want to join him that's your decision. Full refund must be issued within 48 hrs.

Upgrade removed and warning added until refund is issued.

Scourge · Jul 23, 2019

EpicNPC said:
How did you pay autsin? If it was via Paypal or some other payment method, you can dispute the payment against him.

You cannot dispute BTC payments.

EpicNPC said:
The channel was stolen. You can clearly see the 2 new videos, 11 hours ago and 3 days ago was created by the same person that posted the videos from months ago. This means the original owner has the account back. Whether or not this account was stolen is not up for debate, it was clearly stolen.

If you're going to put on your blinders like that, then I can't do anything about that. You yourself even confirmed that this is resolved. A resolved case shouldn't be reopened on unsubstantiated evidence especially when I have set TOS regarding that. If you're going to disregard them on the basis of an imaginary rule, go ahead, I can't stop you.

I refuse to be held responsible for something I am not responsible for - have a good day.

Epic 1NPC · Jul 23, 2019

Scourge said:
You cannot dispute BTC payments.

I can confirm payment was with btc.

You and the buyer will have to split the lose. You paid $400, your customer paid $1350. $1150 refund must be issued. This means you both lose $200.

Scourge said:
If you're going to put on your blinders like that, then I can't do anything about that. You yourself even confirmed that this is resolved. A resolved case shouldn't be reopened on unsubstantiated evidence especially when I have set TOS regarding that. If you're going to disregard them on the basis of an imaginary rule, go ahead, I can't stop you.

I refuse to be held responsible for something I am not responsible for - have a good day.

I'm hear to fix a mistake that was made with this dispute.

Ban will be issued in 24 hrs instead as it appears Scourge has stated he is refusing the refund his customer.

viermart · Jul 23, 2019

Split the lose is more than fair Scourge, as I told you did money with a stolen channel. That is totally unfair.

Epic 1NPC · Jul 24, 2019

Ban at the end of today if refund is not issued.

viermart · Jul 25, 2019

No ban and no refund. People do whatever they want on this forum and money is not covered from scammers as SCOURAGE.

Epic 1NPC · Jul 25, 2019

Scourge has been banned for failing to resolve this dispute.

Scammers info:
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

I'm sorry, but our system does not cover payment once a transaction is completed. The system is designed to prevent any scams during the exchange process, which is when most scams occur.
https://www.epicnpc.com/infocenter/trade_guardian-mm-services.html

If he eventually contacts you to repay you, please let us know.

I have been scammed by user Scourge

Level 23

Level 23

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