Possible TWV Scammer either way Shady vietsniper7012 (traders remorse imo)

[Skellytan]

Information
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Date that scamming took place: 5/29/2012
Method of Contact Used: AIM.
Instant Messenger ID of scammer: Vietsniper7012
Your Instant Messenger ID: Skellytan
EpicNPC Account of Scammer: View Profile: Vietsniper7021 - Trade WoW Accounts - World of Warcraft Account Trading - EpicNPC
Other information: Traded him a rogue for his warrior put the rogue on new keys with help from Sky viet claims account was recalled at 10:42 pm pacific time 1:42 am eastern (my time) when he was kicked off I still have access to the original account rogue was on so it was not recalled I assume he still has the info as alot of what he said doesnt pan out. Said account was stripped which it is not in the armory still in full pve gear will show armory to any mod should they ask with proof that viet had the name changed to the character. I talked to sky and it seems he raged and logged when doing arenas with him on the rogue so I assume he just had a case of buyers remorse which I am willing to forgive should he return it and saving me the headache of waiting on hold for an hour.

Scam Information
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What was scammed? 401 pvp Rogue
Link of transaction thread: http://www.epicnpc.com/wow-usa-acco...vp-rogue-kt-81-dk-kt-entertaining-offers.html
Approximate value of scammed property: $? USD

Was a middleman used?
If yes, who?
Describe how you were scammed: Traded my rogue for his warrior on 5/28 everything went smooth he asked for a appearance change which isnt allowed but obliged anyway. At 10:43 pm pacific 1:32 am my time he sent me an aim saying he was just kicked off and information was changed. I found this odd seeing as how customer service closes at 8pm also the only two people who have information other than him are me and Sky who helped me with the process of securing the rogue for me on a new account. I checked the old account the rogue was on and nothings changed just magically the account no one has info to was recalled also id like to point out that he said the character was stripped and that most likely it was chinese farmers with malicious software which made me LOL. The characters armory still shows him geared. I will of course drop this if he decides to return it as I dont want the headache of waiting an hour on the phone I will not ask for the 15 I spent back as it wasnt allowed in the first place.
Other details / notes:

Proof
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You MUST provide proof or your claim will not be valid!
Chat Logs: Use

tags.
Pictures/Screenshots: Link to pictures or use code.
[IMG]http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh585/Skellytan/a1.png

Other proof: He said he was disconnected with info changed then when explaining about the new keys and only sky and I knowing about it and that I still have the old account information and checked that rogue WASNT on the old account he said he logged in and character was naked and upon asking he gave me the new name of the rogue which is not naked at all and how would he log in to see it naked anyway with the info "being changed"

Additional Information
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Did you do any background searching before the transaction? Yes (optional)
Have you traded with this person before? No
Approximately how many transactions have you done on EpicNPC? around 7?

 

[Sky~]

Banned - multiple unresolved scam threads - scammer

There would be a recovery email if it was recovered, there was no email on the original email account the new account was created on. It was transferred to this new account I believe on Saturday, only me and Skellytan had info. Again, no emails of attempted account recovery or anything, only one of the email being changed to a*****@yahoo.com which was Vietsniper's email, this was on monday. A day later he says info had changed, he might have gotten hacked, but that's his problem not Skellytan's. This account was secure and impossible to recall, something doesn't sit well with me on this.

I believe it could be buyer's remorse as well.

It makes no sense, there is no record of recall, he didn't even show an email and when asked about it, he blamed the Chinese... -_- If his computer is not secure, and he has a keylogger, Skellytan should not be duped out of this account because of him.

I talk to Vietsniper on a daily basis, so this is putting all personal relationships on the side.

 

[Sky~]

Banned - multiple unresolved scam threads - scammer

Adding to this Veitsniper has recovered the account, it was changed to the email [email protected], if anyone has any information on that email, would be great to know so PM me. As of right now this issue is solved. Closing thread.

 

[Sky~]

Banned - multiple unresolved scam threads - scammer

Reopening thread, Vietsniper claims he has gotten kicked off the Rogue twice today. No recall emails or anything in the prior emails from Skellytan. Again, the Rogue is on a brand new account only me and Skellytan knew the info to before Vietsniper had it. The email was changed willingly either by Vietsniper, or someone else. I'm positive this is either trader's remorse, or a keylogger issue. Vietsniper told me he ran a virus checker and found nothing.

Again, no proof of the recalls or anything, just claims. Posting my opinion, then I will no longer be involved in this, my patience in this matter has worn too thin to assist any further.

 

[TheCrusher]

Already messaged Skellytan, gave him back his rogue and I recieved the warrior.

I just like the state that I believe this thread was done quite prematurely, as I have the right to believe that when you are disconnected 3 times in total in less than 24 hours on an account you have just traded, that you should feel concerned. Regardless of whos had it, or anything.

 

[Sky~]

Banned - multiple unresolved scam threads - scammer

This issue looks to be solely on you. You either have a keylogger or just outrighted lied about a recall. You also showed no proof other than your word. This screenshot shows absolutely ZERO support tickets ever created on this account. Its archived section is even greyed out. If a recall was initiated by anyone, it would show a phone call or webform. Anyone that's been around long enough knows this.

Even more backing to the buyer's remorse claim is that it was "recovered" not even a day after you traded.

We'll see what Mike has to say, but this to me is a clear cut case of "I don't want this account anymore". One main glaring reason I believe this is the case is simply because I sold to him before. He flip flopped on a Warrior 3 or 4 times, then was hesitant on the account he did buy from me.

Just leaving this post here so people can see, closing thread unless Skellytan wants to add to this.

 

[Skellytan]

Basically yeah no recalls on the account only sky and I have info no recall emails on any of the old emails nor does it have any support tickets which it would have should it have ever been recalled. he keeps playing the victim card which im ok with we did trade back as I dont wish to deal with this child any further. Only thing im out is the 15$ for the appearance change which he asked for as part of the trade I wont be asking for back because I know its against the policy here at epicnpc. I wish for you to remove my positive rating and do whatever you see fit.

 

[TheCrusher]

I flip flopped? Yes I did because you offered me a warrior on which YOU ALLOWED me to login into and check out, which by the way, I had a choice of taking it or not. You did not send me any relevent info on that account, it was a simple "Go ahead man, check it out.

"Hey guys My name is Sky, its green and I am right all the time" is what im getting at here.

But before I get into this, that matter should be opened in another thread.

However on this note, I do believe Sky and Skelly are RL buddies looking to team up. One isn't even TMV, overreacted by creating this thread, and his buddy comes to his rescue.

However getting into the matter at hand,

 

[Sky~]

Banned - multiple unresolved scam threads - scammer

We are not "RL friends" I have done just as many deals with Skellytan as I have you. I talk to you both the same, I am only going on what I see here, and what I see is the lack of proof on your end and overwhelming proof on Skellytan's end.

I post what I feel is correct, if I am ever proven wrong, I will gladly retract my statements and admit me being in the wrong. If you can show ANY proof that it was indeed recalled in the time frame you stated, please by all means post it. When this was first brought to my attention, you know I played an unbiased role in this. I told you I would check everything out, I did just that. This was my conclusion, and you have a problem with it. Again, I cannot make final rulings on these scam issues, so we will have to see what Mike thinks with the proof shown.

 

[TheCrusher]

Regardless, no scam has taken place "in a scam thread".

http://www.epicnpc.com/itrader_detail.php?ir=459043&u=167085 Bad negative feedback. Clearly....THIS is remorse.

I am sorry, but trying to show logs in which I say "Hey I got disconnected man, whats up?" and you say "Alright Ill take care of the problem man" DOES NOT constitute a scam.

 

[Sky~]

Banned - multiple unresolved scam threads - scammer

Please, tell us why you never received an email about the login being changed?

Blizzard always sends one.

With the random logging off, no one else has your info but you to log you off, it was that or server issues. It points more and more to keyloggers on your computer.

 

[Skellytan]

I didnt say I was scammed by you only that you obviously dont want the rogue which I am more than happy to take back just wanting it out there that you are lying by saying info has been changed and someone is recalling which the history shows otherwise not 1 email not 1 thing in the accounts history saying anythings been called in simple as that. Lying is annoying especially when youre a grown man. The negative was having to deal with such an immature human being

 

[Sky~]

Banned - multiple unresolved scam threads - scammer

I want to add that Vietsniper said he called into Blizzard yesterday and recovered the account. Where is the support ticket from your phone call?

If someone wants to confirm Blizzard leaves support tickets immediately after a phone call is made, go ahead, because as soon as the phone hangs up, they create one and its available to view.

I cannot stand liars.

 

[TheCrusher]

I would like to add to ANYONE reading this,that i am sure that the rogue is a toon that sky created through his
http://www.epicnpc.com/wow-usa-acco...ully-upgraded-cataclysm-get-new-toon-mop.html program

Now what does this say you ask? Well two things, it strikes me odd that someone puts up a scam thread which isnt really a scam, its clearly vengeance in its finest. Two, what I see here is a moderator, who should be moderating threads rather than giving his personal opinion and "defensive" nature to come and help a previous customer keep what he feels he is owed.

And now the consequences? I see a person who simply jumped conclusions, just as my previous scam thread, harps on things that really aren't even negative. Wow so I tell you the email got changed. IT DID, I tell you i want my warrior back. Keep in mind, that I never said he had to, I simply said I would like it back because the email is changed and that in this scenario, A grown man which you say...would do the right thing and return it.

No where in that argument is there any kind of "remorse" for a transaction. I simply show concern in an accounts safety, and don't want any part in the process of having to DEAL with recalling and calling blizzard back and forth for something that shouldnt have happened in the first place, which is three disconnects in less than 24 hours. Anyone in my shoes would agree that three disconnects is awefully weird.

Now whats even weirder is that I see Sky coming to defend Skelly who made the rogue for him, and now tries to put the blame on me.

No thank you sir. Not even gonna deal with this. Ending my rant here and now, I will wait for response from Mike, and whatever the verdict: I call BS. Thread never should of been opened.

 

[Sky~]

Banned - multiple unresolved scam threads - scammer

I am not defending anyone, pointing out the facts. Not being defensive, it just irks me the wrong way that you seem to have done nothing but lie to my face, I do not take that very well.

To reply to your accusation on the Rogue account coming from me, that would be false. The Rogue account is one he obtained in some other means, he purchased a Hunter from me through that service if you so wish to know. The Hunter was also created in his personal name, which is not what is on the Rogue account. Besides, the Rogue was full Cata, it takes months to get full Cata gear, he just made his purchase not even a month ago.

I did however walk Skellytan through on how to secure his Rogue, I showed him where to transfer, what to transfer it to, and also how to get the old email deleted, which I might add is already in the process of happening.

Unfortunately I was personally dragged into this, and for that reason, I gave my side of the story, it just happened to come out in Skellytan's favor.

Everything you have claimed has not been backed up with anything, while everything I suspect has been. I have completely investigated this issue from top to bottom. There just has not been any breach in this accounts security, at least not on Skellytan's end. I don't even think it was a keylogger after seeing zero support tickets. You would have one from customer phone support.

 

[EpicNPC]

Since the trade has been undone, I will consider it resolved and will only comment in terms of the negative feedback that was left.

Skellytan trades rogue to Vietsniper7012 for warrior
rogue moved to new account, new keys
Vietsniper7012 claims rogue is recalled
Skellytan still has access to old account, so can't be recall
Vietsniper7012 claims it was stripped, armory shows otherwise
possible keylog or hack
Vietsniper7012 reclaims rogue account
rogue login info changed again
rogue and warrrior are traded back to OOs

Sky is a moderator and as a Mod he is able to post in scam threads, but cannot make judgements/resolutions and he didn't, only SuperMods and myself can. So nothing Sky posted was inappropriate and he progressed the dispute in the correct direction.

Moving on, as stated before, the original rogue account was intact the whole time, so this rules out a recall.

I'm assuming once the rogue was moved to a new account and Sky and Skellytan parts were done, you changed the password for both the email and account, correct?
If so, then for anyone to log into the account, you would have to receive a password change email, correct? Again we already ruled out a recall.

Vietsniper7012, you stated to Skellytan that the email and pass were changed, what is your explanation as to what happened as there are no tickets recorded that anything happened?

Feedback is not just used for scams, its used for bad experiences. To Skellytan, he believes this was a bad trade because you provide no proof the account was ever compromised. He offered the Warrior back because he didn't want to deal with you. To him, that is a bad experience and he wants to reflect that in your feedback and is allowed. Think of it as a review of your transaction and for Skellytan it was negative.

I edited the comment a bit, but the negative will remain.

Closing in 24 hrs.

 

[Sky~]

Banned - multiple unresolved scam threads - scammer

Everything you stated is correct with the exception of the Rogue's account transfer. This transfer was done on 5/26, which was prior to their trade of 5/28. It was not part of the agreement to transfer the character to a new account, Skellytan decided to transfer the character before offering it for trade. Vietsniper had no clue it was a new account unless Skellytan had told him.

Also, the second issue Vietsniper claims to have had was him just being logged off, not info being changed, which could suggest someone knew his info and when they logged in, it kicked him off, or server issues (although I had no server issues, both my main character and his are on the same server). I personally had that account on Real ID and saw him on for most of the time I was online yesterday.

Yes, he did change both the email and password once he gained possession of the account, Skellytan has the emails to prove that.

 

[Skellytan]

Everything was changed up I did tell Viet that I moved the rogue to new keys once he told me info had been changed and also told him that I still have the old account which has had no recall calls or tickets just like the new account has not. Bottom line is account has had no issues so why lie about it? Thats the only thing that pisses me off its not right to want your account back using shady tactics I would have been much happier should he of just said flat out hey the rogues not for me would you mind doing a trade back. Lying gets you nowhere.

---------- Post added 06-01-2012 at 02:51 PM ----------

Also if possible mike can you remove the positive that I left under his negative I would appreciate it

 

[EpicNPC]

its been removed.