Markeedragon sale ( just a nice discusion )

[Zoefken]

I guess this is sort of off topic but...

I'm not sure why people are still confused as to why Marcus sold Markee Dragon. You don't need Marcus to explain it to you why he made the decision, to me at least it was quite obvious. But here it is...

The forums to Marcus was an "on the side" thing. You were a staff member, you should know that Marcus was a ghost in the forums. It was rare that he engaged the community socially or did administration tasks. That was what Alex was for. Marcus mainly just controled the budgets and the direction the forum development took. Markee Dragon was never even meant to be an account trading website, it just happened to be the right time, right place and it kept growing and growing.

As you said Marcus is a business man. That is his focus. Shattered Crystal is his biggest website along side Trust Who. In view of Marcus the website was a cesspool of virtually illegal activity (EULA violations) and this got in the way of him trying to get big contracts with games for Shattered Crystal. Think of it this way. I am a game developer and I am considering Shattered Crystal as an official game key seller. Looking into it a little more I find that he (Marcus) has a forum, not only a forum but the largest forum, for buying, selling, and trading accounts, gold, etc. This is against my game policy and now I want to endorse his CD key company? I don't think so. Not to mention that during the time that I was staff we received numerous "complaints" from companies like Electronic Arts forcing us to take down some forums or face legal actions. Marcus did not want to lose his reputation because of the forums, so he got rid of them. Not to mention the upkeep and development costs of the forum was about $60,000 per year. In years past it has been over 100k.

If you ask me selling Markee Dragon was a legitimate move for his business even though it greatly destroyed what the community was, but he didn't care. I highly doubt that he has had any second thoughts about selling the forums.

Get it now?

In another topic witch is closed i found this post wich is a answer to a question why marcus aka markee dragon sold the site for.

In answer to this post i would like to drop in my point of vieuw on this matter. And i hope people can keep this chat in a friendly way and not start yelling fire for what i am about to type. These idees are my own and in now way do they reflect anything else than my own idees.

As all know marcus is in the first place a bussines man and as i can understand his reasoning about selling MD i can't understand that he so bluntly sold MD. The people that where on MD where in the first place his customers. Most people who bought stuff from his other sites where mainly people who where on MD douing bussines ( illegaly or legal ). Marcus crushd the community that made him big. His Trust Who baby that he developd over the years is made for the sole reason of protecting illegal trades ( or that was atleast the main reason about it ).

And than out of the blue he sold MD to the person with the highest bit. Why is stil a mistery to me. If i would have had a site of that magnitude i would atleast hear out the community. The community that made marcus to what he is right now, whithout MD community marcus would be a small frie in the big world of online trading. Even tough marcus couldn't grow anymore his bussines was great in all his assets.

Tough to make a long story short : Whithout us ( the community ) marcus wouldn't be the man he is right now, in the end he didged us like some old bike.

 

[naga]

To hear the full story of why Marcus sold the site here's a video he created with his well known youtube channel.

YouTube - The full story behind the changes at Markee Dragon

 

[Zoefken]

I am not listing to marcus his story. As you are wel aware i suppose behind every change is a bigger meaning with bussines man.

 

[Whambulance]

Actually in truth md is just a small part of his assets. He stood to make more money selling it.

 

[naga]

But I see where you're coming from, without us (the community of MD, although I never used MD) Marcus wouldn't have the great success he did. As Apoc said though, Marcus didn't make the forum to buy, sell, trade, the community just made it happen. For a while, I think he just went with the flow because he was making decent money. Also as Apoc said/described, it was hurting his other business (Shattered Crystal) which is mostly why he pulled the plug. I think the reason why he just kind of deserted MD so fast is because even though the community was really active in RMT, it was never his intention for the forums to turn out that way.

Marcus did have a lot of emotion selling the business to Mmobay, in the video when he describes it he's almost in tears. Honestly, I feel as if he didn't want to do it because he was letting the community down, but he had to do it for himself.

Now, he gets quite a few followers through his Youtube Channel (I am a subscriber as well, because I find his videos very entertaining) so that helps ease the pain I believe.

Another thing is, with MarkeeDragon no longer having any RMT that violate the EULA, Shattered Crystal has skyrocketed in business it seems. In one video of his, he talks about how there are legit orders that people spend $100,000+ on a single game.

 

[Zoefken]

One uber point he made. DOLLAR beats CONCIOUNS

 

[UnholySonata]

Someone get Zoe a tissue.

or an english book.

 

[Whambulance]

Zoefken,
the one thing you to be failing to grasp, is that in th end this is a bussiness，and all busines's, the goal is to make money. You think mike nor marcus should make money off this site? Let me ask you this，if your employeer didn't pay you for your work, and turned around and told you that you were being greedy for wanting compensation for your services, would that be acceptable? Thats basically what you are saying.

 

[Prelude2233]

Banned - failed to resolve scam thread -http://vbforums.mmobay.net/scammers/409446-prelude2233-scammer-2.html

Decisions revolve around money.

 

[Zoefken]

Someone get Zoe a tissue.

or an english book.

Oo look i am a smarty pants.

What i am saying is the following. Whithout HIS baby marcus wouldn't be where he is today. I am not telling he shouldn't do whats best for his pocket that was never what i said. What i was trying to say is that he shouldn't have sold MD to anyone. He should have gave up his board to the community and let have the moderators take it from there. He could have even supported the forums on the backside. Meaning in the shadows he could have stil supported it. Just with a diffrent name. But in the end he was greedy with his baby and SOLD it to the person with the highest bid.

 

[UnholySonata]

Oo look i am a smarty pants.

What i am saying is the following. Whithout HIS baby marcus wouldn't be where he is today. I am not telling he shouldn't do whats best for his pocket that was never what i said. What i was trying to say is that he shouldn't have sold MD to anyone. He should have gave up his board to the community and let have the moderators take it from there. He could have even supported the forums on the backside. Meaning in the shadows he could have stil supported it. Just with a diffrent name. But in the end he was greedy with his baby and SOLD it to the person with the highest bid.

Put yourself in his position and tell me with a straight face that you would "give it up to the community" instead of making 50k (hypothetic number of course).

 

[Zoefken]

To be absolutly frank with you. I would place the community first. The community that made me the man i am. I wouldn't even think twice about it !

 

[Whambulance]

To be absolutly frank with you. I would place the community first. The community that made me the man i am. I wouldn't even think twice about it !

Again, MD didn't make marcus "the man he is", to marcus MD was nothing but a side project. Also,as far as just giving it up to the community, who was going to absorb the 60k operating cost per year? Yes those are actual numbers. Where do you see the money to operate coming from? And yes it cost more then 250 a yea for hosting, i don't know where your getting those numbers but their false. This site has an insane overhead. Marcus would in fact spend on average 60,000 a year on MD and as apoc said some years over 100,000.

 

[UnholySonata]

You obviously have no idea what Marcaus has done in the past, if you think MD was his one and only contributor to his success.

Like Hyk said, MD was a mere side project (most likley hemorrhaging money from his own pocket).

 

[Zoefken]

Than you clearly should hear what he says in his youtube video's. It started out as a project for selling his Ultima Online stuff around 1997 " that are his words ". He made a averange of 250k every year douing that. So clearly thats where it all started. Trustwho was build for MD. Where did he put his publicity for shatterd crystal? Seriously.

LMFAO if you think someone spends 60k on a website they should just host it themself and start a bussines in hosting. If you believe something like that you are a bit slow. I host a total of 7 sites now. Ofcourse i don't host a site of this magnitude. But i know the general figures. And i can ashure you a site like this doesn't cost anyone 60k a year. Or your beeing ripd off badly.

If they would realy be waisting so much money why not just put up your own server?

The rack whithout the data blocks should be between 2000-4000$.
The actual server racks should be between 500-5000$.

Now lets say hypotheticly that you whant the best of the best. So your investment stays viable and good for a copple of years?
You buy yourselve a top notch rack 4000$.
2500$ for 1 server rack ( 3TB ) so lets say you by 5 ( 15TB ).
= 16500$ ( this includes taxes )

So now all that is left to do is ask your internet provider for a dedicated line and unlimited data transfer. Lets say you can get that for 1000$ a month

16500 + 12000 = 28500$

And the next year it costs you 12000$

Now tell me where these 60k come from.

 

[FalseBit]

Now tell me where these 60k come from.

While it would be unrealistic to get into the exact figures, the company owned alot of their own equipment and the site was not homed on a single server. Also if you recall the forum software that we used was UBB Threads which was NOT optimized at all to be used on such a large scale and required 2-3x more server power than compared to a vBulletin forum of similar size. There was a period where the site would go down simply due to database bugs because of bad coding. The site also used load balancing and DDoS protection, both of which is not cheap to rent or buy.

Add into that a full time staff member and development costs. 60k is easy.

 

[Ash]

Banned - failed to resolve dispute - http://www.epicnpc.com/threads/566183-Ash - hacking into a member's epicnpc account

Zoe,
1) Please proofread before you post something...
2) I'm pretty much reiterating what everyone said, but Marcus has a website which is popular enough to be advertised by Blizzard (probably increasing his profits by tons), and while he had MD (again ON THE SIDE), MD was illegal and violating the rules of Blizzard's game, so he probably lost a lot of profit and advertisement while keeping MD. While MD was great, he sold it and I personally think that was the right decision, not "leave it to the community" (lmao)

PS: @Necrosyst, what video were you talking about (marcus saying that he had orders reaching past 100k, probably other sites, but nonetheless, I'd like to take a look at that)

 

[Zoefken]

MD was illegal

No MD wasn't illegal, what people did between themselfs on MD was.

@ Apoc: i do understand a staff member costs money. But all the rest could be solved with a simple database migration and updating the software. So those two are no excuses. And in theory the staff member shouldn't be needed if marcus would have invested some of his own time. But to be frank if you don't whant to upgrade software and keep working with a system that can't handle that ammount of traffic than it is your own fault for failing and waisting money.

 

[FalseBit]

No MD wasn't illegal, what people did between themselfs on MD was.

@ Apoc: i do understand a staff member costs money. But all the rest could be solved with a simple database migration and updating the software. So those two are no excuses. And in theory the staff member shouldn't be needed if marcus would have invested some of his own time. But to be frank if you don't whant to upgrade software and keep working with a system that can't handle that ammount of traffic than it is your own fault for failing and waisting money.

Zoefken, you have obviously never transfered and/or converted a large database. The transfer to vBulletin took... over a month, multiple attempts and is not something I would consider a "simple" task. At the time there wasn't even an official tool to use to even do it, we had the MD in-house programmer custom code a tool to do it and it took time each attempt (over 6 hours) to convert the database to vB.

Please, just stop talking about things that you know nothing about.

 

[Zoefken]

I migrated a phpbb2 board to vbullitin : i converted SMF to phpbb3

I know it takes time but when your loosing money it is a needed process. Ofcourse again i didn't do it with a big board like this. But i got the feeling some people know less about this than i do. I ran alot of board for several clans in my hardcore gaming days. I tryed all board types and systems. That means i switchd alot between them. And always there is a way to switch over. It can be hard but once you have both running you can easyly figure out how it is done. And if your smart you try it on a smaller scale first. ( create a dummy board and test it with just a few tables before gouing for the big one ).

Excuses are easy to make. It is hard on the other hand to except mestakes have been made.

P.S.: I am suprised the board only took 6 hours to convert.

 

[naga]

PS: @Necrosyst, what video were you talking about (marcus saying that he had orders reaching past 100k, probably other sites, but nonetheless, I'd like to take a look at that)

YouTube - How can I stop my virtual property from being stolen?

He starts talking about it at 25:50..

 

[UnholySonata]

You seem to be mad as well Necro, what a glorious day!

 

[Zoefken]

Mad? He just points out what Marcus said.

 

[protwarrior]

MD was not a Democracy. He sold it, stop reliving your high school quarterback days.

 

[Zoefken]

stop reliving your high school quarterback days.

Wingle Fingle ****stripe. That is how much sense that made.

MD was not a Democracy. He sold it

It is not as if marcus couldn't sell it it is the why and whatfore that makes me wonder.

People throwing with numbers whithout actualy explaining them. Yeah it costed marcus 60k a year and some years 100k. I am no rocket scientist but when i give figures i can proof them. And as marcus said in some of his post the board generated more in some years.

 

[protwarrior]

Would it matter if he sold the site to blow the money on strippers and cocaine? It's his business not ours. MD is long gone.

 

[Zoefken]

No i wouldn't mind even if he started illegal human traid with it. It was just a discusion as to why he sold it "the reasons behind it, idees he had as to why to sell it". But hey if you can't understand the meaning of the word " discusion feel free to stay away ".

 

[Premium-MMO.com]

Banned - Scammer - Associated with Eu.dreamer - Possiby Eu.dreamer using Premium-MMO's account - VPN/proxy

I understand what you are saying but you have to remember he is a Business Man. Keyword being business. He probably didn't care too much about the community that spawned; it was just another business venture to him. Thereforeit was only logical he sold this project when it was holding him back from reaching bigger business opportunities.

 

[Zoefken]

Ofcourse thats pure logic and any bussines man would get rid of that that hold his cashflow away.

But on the other hand i can't agree with the fact that he sold it to someone oudside of the community. I am almost 100% shure if he would have askd it on the board alot of people would have been willing to take over his flag. But selling it shows a disrespect for the community.

 

[TJP]

There is quite a long story behind the scenes, but it is of no significant matter. He sold the project, someone took it, and we are all here now.

Hyk, nice name change.

 

[Whambulance]

There is quite a long story behind the scenes, but it is of no significant matter. He sold the project, someone took it, and we are all here now.

Hyk, nice name change.

Omg!!!! It's alive,how are you brother?

 

[Zoefken]

There is quite a long story behind the scenes, but it is of no significant matter. He sold the project, someone took it, and we are all here now.

And clearly people forget that in a friendly discusion these things do matter. Why is it so hard for people to understand you can't make a statement in a discusion whithout actualy explaining it?

 

[Premium-MMO.com]

Banned - Scammer - Associated with Eu.dreamer - Possiby Eu.dreamer using Premium-MMO's account - VPN/proxy

Zoefken, you've told everyone numerous times what you would have done. Chances are you probably aren't on his business level. He see's everything as dollars signs ($$) as opposed to you or me. He's a modern day dot-com entrepreneur. It was in his best interest as a business man to sell it to the highest bidder. Come on now... Don't be so naive to think he would give back to the community when it was more than likely just another money making project to him in the first place.

 

[Zoefken]

Maybe i am not on his bussines level but thats not the point in the discusion. In a discusion people debate over a topic and wonder what they should do. But i guess you are not on a communication level as i am. It is not so much the why he did this or did he do not it is more the what would i do and why and what would you do and why. But thats the clue of a discusion trying to convert people to your idee.

And my idee is, markee got this big because of the forums. Whithout the forums no one would have botherd with shatterd crystal, the site lookd dull back than and i wouldn't trust it for a bit when i didn't know it was run by the same people that ran markeedragon.com. Same for his trust who thingy. Would anyone pay 10$ for some site somewhere on the net that checks who you are? I know a bazzilion people wouldn't even bother. Marcus got this big of a entrepeneur by swinging his idees and bussinises in the community, whithout markeedragon he would be one of the small fries around.

And than when the community started to hold him back he just bluntly sold it. That is something a normal bussines man would never do. It is the same as stabbing a knife in the back of your buyers. But that is my idee and mine alone. And therefore i am one of those that left his bussines and never purchased from shatterd crystal again and neither did i ever bother with trust who. Why would i pay marcus money for stabbing a knife in the back of those that made him who he is today.

 

[Whambulance]

Zoefken, that's what your not understanding. Markeedragon didn't make marcus, it was a side project, Marcus had and still has other more lucrative business's than markeedragon ever was. So no MD did not make Marcus.

 

[Zoefken]

LMFAO stave your explenation. I seriously doubt you even understand what the power of the community was. Could he ever have sold what he did ( does ) whithout markeedragon ever beeing there? NO

Now if you please learn how to discus / debate you would know that when making a statement you should stave it.

 

[ToonVendor]

Banned - failed to resolve dispute - http://www.epicnpc.com/active-disputes/473361-toonvendor-%242400-balance-owed-after-consignment-sale-failed-bank-wire.html

Zoefken has to be a novelty account

 

[Jue]

Zoefken, you seem so up your own *** it's no longer funny. It's like aruging with a blind person over text, well in your case selective reading. Seriously the decission was made and from what I gather it was not an easy one. Stop hanging on to the past and just let it drop and mature the **** up.

fyi, If you knew how to debate in the first place yourself, you'd probably realise that listening to other viewpoints and information might get you some where instead of making yourself look like a retard.

 

[Whambulance]

LMFAO stave your explenation. I seriously doubt you even understand what the power of the community was. Could he ever have sold what he did ( does ) whithout markeedragon ever beeing there? NO

Now if you please learn how to discus / debate you would know that when making a statement you should stave it.

Zoefken I don't feel the need to stave my statement. People have offered you views but all you want is an argument not a debate. As far as knowing the community well I've been a part of it a lot longer than yourself. You prove your ignorance by failing to even research your topic, if you had then you'd realize that Marcus has. Quite a few larger business ventures larger than MD, some made before it some after. He was not made by the community, you have failed to give even the slightest evidence to support your opinion,and any of the old MD members will back up everything I say. So you sir feel free to stave your opinion.

 

[Zoefken]

ahem i wil leave you in your ivory tower and your bed of ignorance

 

[ToonVendor]

Banned - failed to resolve dispute - http://www.epicnpc.com/active-disputes/473361-toonvendor-%242400-balance-owed-after-consignment-sale-failed-bank-wire.html

This guy is good

 

[TJP]

Omg!!!! It's alive,how are you brother?

very well! how about yourself?

 

[Nerf2010]

Not wanting to bump a somewhat dead topic..this made some epic reading at work today. I think he made the right decision. I have accounts on most if not all the "account trading" sites and this is by far the most well kept.

My two pennies (uk resident)

 

[Jerichoo]

Banned - multiple accounts - fake feedback

MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!! that is all

 

[rpgreseller]

Wow, I was hoping to see more insightful remarks.

The selling of MarkeeDragon was a historic moment because it was very much 'one of a kind'. To some, it was much more priceless than the going price. Marcus himself set a fair price, and didn't just let it go to the highest bidder. Contrary to what's in this thread, he was highly involved with his community. He had something like more than twenty thousand posts. That's pretty godly.

Some people didn't notice, but MarkeeDragon even hosted a page about a friend that had passed on. He had a very personal connection with the site, and with the community as well. He didn't dump on anyone by selling, he was simply making the best decision available given his conditions and present opportunities.

Sometimes "you can't have your cake and eat it too" can be a very painful or difficult decision.

After eBay blocked virtual goods, people went to MarkeeDragon and PlayerAuctions. PA had some difficulties and went into disrepair, and MarkeeDragon took the crown as world leader for sales of virtual goods except for a few titles like diablo (d2jsp), and Scythe for Runescape. MD owned World of Warcraft account trade. A serious achievement considering the value, and how many people were gunning for that.

If anyone feels bad about missing markeedragon.com, I suggest doing something completely unexpected.
GO to markeedragon.com - the site is still there, the forums are still there
The community that wasn't about just trade is still there.

Marcus has been doing a lot of gaming related media and he's becoming another 'one of a kind' by being the only real 'news outlet' that covers video games. I think it's crazy that the gaming conventions aren't fully filmed. There's plenty of gamers (not just professionals) that would love to know what the speakers are talking about. Since it's still a very 'professionals' thing, Marcus stands alone as one of the few outlets for that kind of stuff.

My advice? Don't look back, look forward. Only a small part of Markeedragon.com was actually sold, the rest is still there and moving forward.

If you want trade, then it's right here. Mmobay did a lot of good things for the trade forums, and the management seems perfectly fine. Nothing to gripe about. The best of both worlds are between these two websites. In the end, nothing has been lost.

 

[brtev]

Marcus has been doing a lot of gaming related media and he's becoming another 'one of a kind' by being the only real 'news outlet' that covers video games. I think it's crazy that the gaming conventions aren't fully filmed. There's plenty of gamers (not just professionals) that would love to know what the speakers are talking about. Since it's still a very 'professionals' thing, Marcus stands alone as one of the few outlets for that kind of stuff.

Not sure what you mean by only real 'one of a kind news outlet' that covers video games as kotaku.com has been around for quite awhile. MD does a great job covering MMORPGs and online social games.

 

[rpgreseller]

Kotaku is great... but sites like Kotaku are websites only. marcus has a camera crew with press passes. He's in an entirely different world, and pushing the envelope in ways that others never did.