Hyoudou Michiru reserved the paypal payment

syltaxue · Aug 4, 2016

A follow up to a previous dispute here:

https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/996093-Syltaxue-selling-falsely-advertised-accounts

He called his bank and revered the paypal payment of this account ( 135 + 30 USD, 2 tranactions).

The other details about the trade can be found in the previous epicnpc dispute thread above.

Long story short: He about the LOL acc from me, 1 month later, the acc got banned for being toxic (see the thread above for more details). Now he revered the paypal payment.

Dispute Date: Aug. 4th, 2016
Method of Contact Used: Skype
Instant Messenger username of the person you're accusing: LiquidInori
EpicNPC username of the person you're accusing: Hyoudou Michiru

https://www.epicnpc.com/members/440179-Hyoudou-Michiru

EpicNPC CM · Aug 4, 2016

Notified

Hyoudou Michiru · Aug 4, 2016

Sorry, didn't want to pay for an account that was falsely advertised. Not going to pay for something that he didn't advertise properly.

syltaxue · Aug 4, 2016

And you think you could get an account worth 165$ for 0$ after your paypal payment reversal?

Hyoudou Michiru · Aug 4, 2016

I think that you falsely advertised something so I shouldn't be charged anything if not you paying me for the inconvenience.

syltaxue · Aug 5, 2016

I think you did not play in line with the rules which result in the ban of the acc.

I am not responsible for your faulty behaviour in the games as mentioned in the replies in the thread here
https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/996093-Syltaxue-selling-falsely-advertised-accounts

Hyoudou Michiru · Aug 5, 2016

I think you are just trying to rip off players and I don't really care what you do, if a sales person advertised a chair fully built,stuffed,and sturdy but it was just a wooden frame even if the person who bought it broke it by sitting on it, they shouldn't be charged for it.

syltaxue · Aug 5, 2016

This is a League of legend acc.

You bought the acc, you played on it for almost 2 months (bought on 06-11-2016). Then you got it banned for toxic behaviour, now you have revered the paypal payment, and you are still blaming it's my fault.

What a joke.

LOL

Let's let them judge..

doomedtofail · Aug 5, 2016

No a month later is not an account that is falsely advertised. Thats buyer remorse or a banned account.

Hyoudou Michiru · Aug 5, 2016

I love how the staff on here is so biased towards him. I really don't care what the staff says. There is no way I'm going to pay for an item that wasn't delivered as advertised.

syltaxue · Aug 5, 2016

How it's biased towards me? Why did you still play on it if it's not what you wanted or falsely advertised? Why did you reverse the payment when you banned the account and claimed it was falsely advertised when you have played on it for one and a half month?

EpicNPC CM · Aug 5, 2016

Hyoudou Michiru said:
if a sales person advertised a chair fully built,stuffed,and sturdy but it was just a wooden frame even if the person who bought it broke it by sitting on it, they shouldn't be charged for it.

Correct, that person would have to return the chair. Not use it for two months, break it, then blame it on the manufacturer for "false advertisement"

If the account wasn't delivered as advertised, why have you been using it for two months?

So in your words, since the account wasn't advertised correctly its 100% okay for you to use it, but not to pay for it?

You got the account, if it was that big of an issue at first you would have given him the account back and asked for a refund, not keep the account for two months and get it banned.

You owe a refund.

Ban in 48 hrs if no refund.

Hyoudou Michiru · Aug 5, 2016

so you are saying I can get away with selling stuff on this site as long as they don't discover anything wrong with it within 2 months? Awesome, time to do so.

- - - Updated - - -

Also from the pictures you could see me explicitly ask him the day after buying that I noticed a problem. He told me then that the "account had never been banned before" and "it's just a chat restriction, it'll go away in a couple of games".

- - - Updated - - -

I noticed that the account had an untold amount of "bad behavior no rewards" at the end of each game, which is why I contacted him the day after buying and playing 2 games.

syltaxue · Aug 5, 2016

Yes, the acc had a chat restriction when you bought it, and I told you about it as well ( when you asked about it after you saw the no rewards).

So at that point, you were aware of the chat restriction.

Then you still kept playing on it, why didnt you ask for a refund when you saw the no rewards? Why did you still keep playing until you received a ban and then came here to complain.

I would give you a full refund if you return the acc to me without getting banned even if you have used it for 2 months. But right now, the acc has 0 value because of what you did.

doomedtofail · Aug 5, 2016

I closed this thread previously. We will not hold the seller accountable for YOUR childish behavior. Don't want a banned account dont act like an ******* in game.

Hyoudou Michiru · Aug 5, 2016

The account did not have a chat restriction when you sold it to me. It had a message at the end of each game saying "due to previous behavior you are ineligible to receive rewards". When I questioned you about it, you said that it wasn't due to behavior but rather due to afking. I was never aware of the chat restriction as from start to end the account never had a chat restriction or a ban during the time I had the account. Doomedtofail you aren't moderating properly as you are biased towards him purely because I was banned due to toxic behavior.

- - - Updated - - -

I explicitly asked you when I saw that message if the account had any problems due to behavior. You replied "no, haha, it's because of a chat restriction. it'll go away in a couple of games"

Adalgiso · Aug 5, 2016

Your toxic behaviour got u banned in 2 months.

Perma. Which means u spit a lot of ****. I've been cursing in World of Tanks for the last 5 years, never got over the 1 week chatban, u must have gone full Holocaust on that chat.
Permaban means that even if the account had been sold to you perfectly ban free you would have it wrecked if not in 2 months maybe in 3 or 4. I dont know anyone who has ever been perma game banned because of in game behaviour, u must have gone Nazi/ni++er in there.

If I was you, I'd find an agreement with the seller cause he'll escalate this with PayPal and with the evidence of these threads he'll get the money back and u'll be banned.

syltaxue · Aug 5, 2016

The thing is, there is no paypal dispute ticket that needs me to provide details to investigate. He called his bank claming that his card was lost and his bank reversed the payment.
There is no chance I could contact paypal or add my arguments to the paypal payment reversal...

Adalgiso · Aug 5, 2016

Are u telling me PayPal already told u to fack off ?

syltaxue · Aug 5, 2016

Yup, he already reversed the payment. That's why I am disputing him here. The payment got removed from my paypal account already without letting me to add any comments.

Hyoudou Michiru · Aug 5, 2016

Would you like to see the ban chat? I can link you it. No racial slurs, no dirty language. 9 lines of chat containing.
"good leash"
"go bot"
"dude stop trolling"
"oh wow you guys are 4 man troll queue?"
"seriously stop"
"why does this happen to me..."
"my team is following me around taking my camps"
"ok thanks"
"gg"

That was all that was in my chat box.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, don't even try to dispute it to paypal. They have no rights as a company to overturn banking decisions.

Rafflez · Aug 5, 2016

Hyoudou Michiru said:
Would you like to see the ban chat? I can link you it. No racial slurs, no dirty language. 9 lines of chat containing.
"good leash"
"go bot"
"dude stop trolling"
"oh wow you guys are 4 man troll queue?"
"seriously stop"
"why does this happen to me..."
"my team is following me around taking my camps"
"ok thanks"
"gg"

That was all that was in my chat box.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, don't even try to dispute it to paypal. They have no rights as a company to overturn banking decisions.

Actually he could and then you could be held liable and have legal action taken against u because what you did is technically fraud and a crime in the us.

syltaxue · Aug 5, 2016

I just want him to stopping do this on this site. I dont want any other seller to get into this situation again. That's the reason I filed this ticket here. I dont have any hope to get the money back.

Hyoudou Michiru · Aug 6, 2016

It's not fraud or crime given that I was charged for a product that I didn't want. I don't care about what he tries to do. You are the only one who I've run into this problem with. I've had multiple trades and this is the only one I've had a problem with.

syltaxue · Aug 6, 2016

If your toxic behaviour will result in an account ban, you will do the same again and again, you will keeping asking your bank to reserve the payments you made. Gonna be a big loss for the other sellers if we allow you to do that.

Adalgiso · Aug 6, 2016

syltaxue, the fact trhat Paypal doesnt ask u anything doesnt mean that u CANNOT CONTACT them and open a dispute. They cannot reverse the bank decision but they can decide that he has to refound u via his PayPal account, and if his bank doesnt allow them they could either ban him or block his account.

Remember that what your enemy tells u to not do, you do. Contact PayPal and tell them u have been frauded, contact even ur local police if necessary. he cannot reverse a paymenbt after 2 months and get away with it.

ps. also maybe next time take the money away form your PayPal account unless it's linked to your bank one if u suspect to have dealt with a scammer.

Hyoudou Michiru · Aug 6, 2016

I've never before been even chat restricted on any of the 3 other accounts that I bought. When I bought it I explicitly asked if it had any prior disciplinary issues and you denied that it had. After I discovered that it had infact had disciplinary issues I asked about it and you dismissed it saying that it was in fact a punishment for afk.

Adalgiso, Permanent bans for League of Legends come after a 10 game chat restriction, 30 game chat restriction, 3 day ban, 7 day ban, 14 day ban. I contacted Riot Games on behalf of the account and they confirmed that the account had been through all 5 stages of that behavior reformation system almost 4 months before I had owned the account. I can also provide screenshots of the support tickets submitted to them, 5 recovery emails and 6 behavior reformation emails. The account was clearly on the very verge of getting permanently banned, either syltaxue didn't know or he knew and just refused to tell me. Either way I shouldn't be held accountable for his mistakes. Obviously I should be held responsible for the final "permanent ban" thus I reversed the paypal action for $135/165. I let him keep $30 out of the niceness of my heart but if this issue goes on any longer I don't mind calling to reverse that as well.

Adalgiso · Aug 6, 2016

Michiru

3 things :

1)-Did u writtenly, here or on skype chat asked about the restrictions of the account where the seller (supposedly) told u no, before buying the account ? post screens.

If the answer is yes with proofs and u post them here or pm them to EpicNpc

2)-Why didnt u say before about the fact that u contacted the support and the support confirmed that the violations were prior to your purchase ?

No need to answer this question though, go straight to point 3

3)-Post the conversation with the support confirming the violations were prior to the date of buying

If u pass all these steps you should be cleared of all doubts cause of a falsely advertised account.

- - - Updated - - -

Because, Michiru, I dont know who u are and where u live, but what u did, without posting the proof of the account having troubles before and the seller telling u "nah, the account is ok lol", is pure and simple fraud.

If u are right and u can prove it, why did u drag this for 2 pages ? Simply post those screens and solve the matter, cause right now u have the pending ban over ur head in case u didnt notice and yet u didnt post any of the proves u only now say u have.

What took u so long ?

Epic 1NPC · Aug 6, 2016

Seller must provide full account disclosure before a sale as stated in our rules
https://www.epicnpc.com/infocenter/forumrules.html

Thread Sale Guidelines & Requirements

Full account disclosure: The seller must state to the buyer before payment whether or not the account has ever been recalled, hacked, stolen or has received violation warnings. The seller must also disclose whether or not any payment transactions (buying in-game items) have occurred on the account.

All information was not disclosed before the sale, this is the seller's fault.

However the buyer was fully aware of previous violations on the account since he says he saw this message when he first receive the account.

due to previous behavior you are ineligible to receive rewards

https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/207489286

First Offense: 10 Game Chat Restriction
Second Offense: 25 Game Chat Restriction
Third Offense: Two Week Suspension
Fourth Offense: Permanent Suspension

Based on this ticket image, there seems to be 4 important tickets
http://imgur.com/bYDfBbM

1) Account banned?
2) rank restricted when Im a reforming
3) I was keylogged & Unrecoverable account (both created around the same time)

Based on the the rewards violation message and the "rank Restricted" & "account banned" tickets from a year ago, this account had a minimum of 2 offenses. I don't know if those 2 tickets from a year ago were about the same violation or 2 different violations.

This account had at least 2 violation offenses and appears to have been recalled once. The buyer was not told this, again this is the seller's responsibility.

Hyoudou Michiru, please provide a 20% refund to the seller as you were aware of at least 1 violation. You then caused the 4th violation.

syltaxue you must provide full disclosure in the future for bans and account violations.

Hyoudou Michiru · Aug 6, 2016

Adalgiso, I did provide screenshots in the earlier post which syltaxue kindly linked.

And to the admin I refunded 20% of $165 already at $30.65 I gave him that at the very start. I did not refund all $165 as I did realize that I was partly responsible for the incident.

- - - Updated - - -

So I think this incident should be closed at this point. I didn't even want any trouble, that's why I gave him 20% anyways.

Adalgiso · Aug 6, 2016

Admin always the voice of wiseness. Glad this was solved. Although 20% of 165 is 33, not 30,65.

But the admin will decide this.

syltaxue · Aug 7, 2016

I am fine with the 20% as long as it's fair and Judged properly.

currently, the 30+135 are reversed.

http://res.cloudinary.com/mmobay-llc/image/upload/v1470553483/hdfecma3rmwacedrn339.jpg

http://res.cloudinary.com/mmobay-llc/image/upload/v1470553481/tjzbnwz1tbkbulsms0a0.jpg

Adalgiso · Aug 7, 2016

Syl, the first link is mispelt

http://res.cloudinary.com/mmobay-llc/image/upload/v1470553483/hdfecma3rmwacedrn339.jpg

This is correct

Hyoudou Michiru · Aug 7, 2016

Syltaxue, check again on Paypal. I only reversed $135. $30.65 isn't refunded.

Hyoudou Michiru · Aug 7, 2016

I've already refunded the 20% in paypal as my bank couldn't refund the full $135 because only $90 of that $135 was using bank money and $45 through paypal. So he still has $45 of the original $165. Since this issue is closed at this point I'd like to have my account returned to normal standing.

syltaxue · Aug 8, 2016

In my PayPal, it says 2 transactions were disputed. It does not say there is a partial amount remained in my account.

Hyoudou Michiru · Aug 8, 2016

Yes. I disputed both transactions but because $45 of the $135 transaction was from my paypal balance, my bank couldn't return that $45. So although it shows up as disputed, I only received $90 back.

syltaxue · Aug 8, 2016

You received 90 + 30 back to your bank instantly. And PayPal reversed the 30, and holding the other 135 on my side, I am getting 0 atm

- - - Updated - - -

Check your PayPal, they may have refunded the full 165 to your bank and PayPal balance. As I have the full amount deducted when you called the bank.

Hyoudou Michiru · Aug 8, 2016

I only have $135. Paypal seems to be holding the $30 for some reason. Neither of us has it at the moment.

syltaxue · Aug 8, 2016

Well you said PayPal hold 45 and now you said it's 30. Are you sure you haven't got them? Why the number got changed from 45 to 30?

Hyoudou Michiru · Aug 8, 2016

I don't know how much it was exactly but my bank only reinstated $128.82 http://imgur.com/a/UfPz2. There's the bank transaction showing the transactions of $98.88 and $30. So either you are lying or you didn't notice when it only took $128.82

doomedtofail · Aug 8, 2016

Please both of you screenshot detailed payment pages and full transaction logs and post with the hide comand with really high post count do we can compare and general public cant see. If images dispute each other we will require videos

Hyoudou Michiru · Aug 8, 2016

Doomed, if you want to add me on skype for a screenshare I don't mind but I wouldn't like to put my banking info on imgur or any hosting site.

doomedtofail · Aug 9, 2016

I do not want your banking. only your paypal. No staff will add you on skype.

syltaxue · Aug 10, 2016

Paypal SS:

135:
[HIDE=999]

30:

[/HIDE]

syltaxue · Aug 14, 2016

I don't know why you don't want to provide PayPal Ss.

I think this ticket needs to get resolved and you own me 20% as previously discussed.

I am not sure why you stopped replying after been asked to provide the PayPal screenshots.

EpicNPC CM · Aug 15, 2016

Ban in 72 hours if no response.

EpicNPC CM · Aug 18, 2016

He hasn't been online. We will give him 24 more hours.

EpicNPC CM · Aug 19, 2016

Banned.

Hyoudou Michiru
[email protected]
LiquidInori

Hyoudou Michiru reserved the paypal payment

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