Feedback Dispute

[MMO-Armory.com]

Please remove this feedback.

User claims to have had an account issue and blames us for this case. As we never exercise harmful actions on consigned accounts, I can say with 100% confidence that we have had 0 involvement in the account's case. The user conveniently blames us for an issue that the user has provided 0 evidence whatsoever that links his issue to our company.

User also claims that there were attempts to change information on the account. When we consign accounts, we never change any information until an account is sold. You can ask any of the 500+ account owners that have worked with us and they will all have a unified answer backing my previous statement. If there were repetitive attempts on the user's account to change his information, then may I suggest that Birddbrain scans his computer for keyloggers, viruses, or trojans, and that he makes sure no one else has access to his E-Mail address as he may have records of accounts information there.

Please remove this feedback.

Regards





Birddbrain

• After over a month of no communication from the website i've come to realize my account was banned after they made failed attempts at changing the information about the account.
  
  I provided more than sufficient enough information for anything about the account to be changed.
  
  
  I understand the risk, but I should have been contacted, so therefore it is a negative experience.

06-16-2015, 10:54 AM
MMO-Armory.com

• Edit
  This is blatant accusation. When we consign accounts, we do not do anything that harms accounts. We do not login, we do not change any information, no password, no E-Mails, and we do not contact Riot. There is absolutely zero possibility that your account has been banned from our side. Yes, we have your account information when you sent it, but that is as far as it goes. The information goes nowhere else, and is not used in any way.
  
  Your account could have been banned for many reasons. This feedback is pure accusation without any proof whatsoever. Please have this negative feedback removed as soon as possible.

 

[doomedtofail]

Notified. sounds like the original owner tried to recover it. We would have to see actual ban email from riot

 

[EpicNPC]

What game is this for and what's the thread sale URL? The URL he uses in your feedback is to an old vouch thread.

 

[MMO-Armory.com]

Hi

There is no sale thread here on EpicNPC related to this account.

@doomedtofail, I do agree that an actual ban mail needs to be looked at. It would also be important to note that while the account may be banned for whatsoever reason, MMO-Armory had no part in it. We received the user's account info, but that's right where it ends. We did not even login to the account. Zero contact with riot, zero touching account info.

As negative feedbacks affect our work adversely, would it be fair to ask for it to be removed until sufficient incriminating evidence that points to us being involved in his ban is provided by the user?

 

[doomedtofail]

Wait it was a cosign by him to you? You did not sell it to him on cosign? And it never sold?

 

[EpicNPC]

Birddbrain has been email notified.

Okay, I see it was for a LoL account.

What was the purchase date for this account?
When did Birddbrain contact you to say it was banned?

my account was banned after they made failed attempts at changing the information about the account.

When we consign accounts, we do not do anything that harms accounts. We do not login, we do not change any information, no password, no E-Mails, and we do not contact Riot.

The cosign part doesn't really matter. The account was sold on your site, so you take responsibility. If the OO recalled or attempted to recall, you'd still responsible.

If he got it banned for something else or was scammed by someone else that caused the banned, then you would not be responsible.

I provided more than sufficient enough information for anything about the account to be changed.

His feedback says he sent you proof. Can you post that?

Have you tried contacting the seller you got it from? Is the account still banned or active?

 

[Birddbrain]

Hello, my apologies for the late reply, I had no idea bad feedback needed this much reviewing, anyway...onto the issue.

The account was in my possession previously for YEARS without issue, and it's just too much of a coincidence for my account to be banned after the consign. I did not think about or even touch the account after the consign, I quit LoL which is why I was selling the account. After over a month of no communication or money from the account selling I decided to log onto the dedicated email he had me setup for the account (an outlook email) I noticed 2 emails notifying that the account information being changed, then after those two emails a ban notice from riot. Pictures of both have been provided.


When you consign an object to someone//a company you expect it to come back in the same condition if they fail to sell the product, they failed to sell my product, they also took terrible care of the product. Bottom line.

I will be home from work in a few hours and will check back to this thread, I apologize for my disappearance, and for this rushed message. I am on my lunch.







I don't expect much to happen, but I firmly believe the feedback should not be removed. If anything, to prevent the website from cosigning accounts they won't do so much as check on occasionally, seeing as how I'm supposed to give up any and all access to the account.


Oh, those pictures look bad, here's a link to them. (I have 4 monitors, I apologize for the bad cutting job, I don't have the time right now)

The Ban: http://i.imgur.com/TFrGcYl.png

The Inbox: http://i.imgur.com/4oHGous.png

- - - Updated - - -

Birddbrain has been email notified.

Okay, I see it was for a LoL account.

What was the purchase date for this account?
When did Birddbrain contact you to say it was banned?





The cosign part doesn't really matter. The account was sold on your site, so you take responsibility. If the OO recalled or attempted to recall, you'd still responsible.

If he got it banned for something else or was scammed by someone else that caused the banned, then you would not be responsible.


His feedback says he sent you proof. Can you post that?

Have you tried contacting the seller you got it from? Is the account still banned or active?

I was not contacted after the bad feedback. The only e-mails I recieved were just repeat emails asking me if I wanted to cosign my account again, almost as if he was teasing the fact it got banned. I asked him in an email if it was a joke and he said "Negative, I don't know why my e-mail client sent you this"

That is the most discussion we have had. I will link a pic.

http://i.imgur.com/DPMyyTr.png

 

[doomedtofail]

Epicnpc this was not a purchase at all. If a transaction never occured feedback can not be left. But im this case you would have to PROVE you didnt loose, use or get account banned and that mmoarmory is at fault

 

[EpicNPC]

Once account info is given to someone, feedback can be given.

MMOarmory took the account to resell on behalf of Birddbrain. Regardless of whether or not MMOArmory actually sells it, if the account is banned feedback can be given if it turns out it's MMOarmory's fault.

Birddbrain go the "Settings" page, click "Security & Privacy" then "See my recent activity"

That will show you every login to the outlook email account.

Post a screenshot of that page. I want to see who logged into the account on April 9th.

 

[MMO-Armory.com]

But im this case you would have to PROVE you didnt loose, use or get account banned and that mmoarmory is at fault (doomedtofail)

if the account is banned feedback can be given if it turns out it's MMOarmory's fault. Birddbrain go the "Settings" page, click "Security & Privacy" then "See my recent activity" (EpicNPC)

@birddbrain: I sympathise for your ban. You have to understand however that simply because "it is too much of a coincidence" that your account is banned during the consignment period, does not mean you can conveniently point the finger at me and blame the situation to us.

There are many factors that can cause bans:
- Multiple previous account recoveries
- Attempted recoveries from parties that knew the information (This could be gained from keyloggers, trojans, from someone you know, or if your personal e-mail password is compromised they can see your sent folder and see the account information that you sent us.)
- Botting
- Toxic Behavior
- Win trading
- Ladder abuse
- Chargebacks on purchased
- Hiring boosters

If we are at fault, I would gladly accept the negative rating. I am and have always maintained being an honest business owner. I can tell you with 100% confidence that we have had nothing to do with your account situation. As I have mentioned repeatedly, we did not login to your account, nor your E-Mail, we did not contact Riot, we did nothing. We received your information via E-Mail, and that is where the line stops. Our E-Mail inbox is completely secure, protected with two-step login security from Google Apps, so information compromise did not come from our end either. Many other accounts would have issues if we were compromised.

As recommended by EpicNPC, check your E-Mail's login history.

As noted by EpicNPC and Doomhammer, you need to have significant evidence that directly points to MMO-Armory for your ban.

You cannot blame us conveniently based on your gut feeling and coincidences.


- - - Updated - - -

You mentioned that you have had the account for years without problems. This is not true as you have indicated to us that you have had to recover the account in the past, and that you have been chat suspended previously. Please post accurate and honest information, especially in a situation such as this where you are pointing fingers without solid evidence.

When you mention that "I have had the account for years", are you implying you purchased this from someone else? If you have several parties with information, this makes things even less relevant to point the blame at us. However, I assume you are the original owner.

Looking at the consignment form you filled to us, you wrote the following:

I have had to recover the account once, the account was stolen, I regained the information within a day and the thief bought me championship thresh.
The account has only been chat suspended, once, when that system first came out.

If you have had to recover the account from someone, that person can in future times attempt to re-recover the account with the same method that you used to regain access. This causes bans.

If the person who stole your account, as you mentioned, bought you Championship Thresh, a chargeback on their end on the purchased skin (after all you recovered the account back from him) can also cause bans.

Just this one piece of additional information already adds many additional possibilities on why or how your account was banned.

 

[Birddbrain]

@birddbrain: I sympathise for your ban. You have to understand however that simply because "it is too much of a coincidence" that your account is banned during the consignment period, does not mean you can conveniently point the finger at me and blame the situation to us.

There are many factors that can cause bans:
- Multiple previous account recoveries
- Attempted recoveries from parties that knew the information (This could be gained from keyloggers, trojans, from someone you know, or if your personal e-mail password is compromised they can see your sent folder and see the account information that you sent us.)
- Botting [Edit]
- Toxic Behavior [Edit]
- Win trading [Edit]
- Ladder abuse [Edit]
- Chargebacks on purchased [Edit]
- Hiring boosters [Edit]

If we are at fault, I would gladly accept the negative rating. I am and have always maintained being an honest business owner. I can tell you with 100% confidence that we have had nothing to do with your account situation. As I have mentioned repeatedly, we did not login to your account, nor your E-Mail, we did not contact Riot, we did nothing. We received your information via E-Mail, and that is where the line stops. Our E-Mail inbox is completely secure, protected with two-step login security from Google Apps, so information compromise did not come from our end either. Many other accounts would have issues if we were compromised.

As recommended by EpicNPC, check your E-Mail's login history.

As noted by EpicNPC and Doomhammer, you need to have significant evidence that directly points to MMO-Armory for your ban.

You cannot blame us conveniently based on your gut feeling and coincidences.


- - - Updated - - -

You mentioned that you have had the account for years without problems. This is not true as you have indicated to us that you have had to recover the account in the past, and that you have been chat suspended previously. Please post accurate and honest information, especially in a situation such as this where you are pointing fingers without solid evidence.

When you mention that "I have had the account for years", are you implying you purchased this from someone else? If you have several parties with information, this makes things even less relevant to point the blame at us. However, I assume you are the original owner.

Looking at the consignment form you filled to us, you wrote the following:


If you have had to recover the account from someone, that person can in future times attempt to re-recover the account with the same method that you used to regain access. This causes bans.

If the person who stole your account, as you mentioned, bought you Championship Thresh, a chargeback on their end on the purchased skin (after all you recovered the account back from him) can also cause bans.

Just this one piece of additional information already adds many additional possibilities on why or how your account was banned.

My account was stolen during the massive security leak on riot servers a year ago, it was a very common problem, the championship thresh was just a nice bonus from whoever got ripped off into buying it I guess. The recovery process went simply and quickly because I was able to provide all of my information instantly and accurately, it is my own created account after all.

I consigned the account to you with intention of sale, I have not logged into the game since, I did not even log-in to the game during consignment to update my skins list because I didn't want to deal with updates on my slow internet (I have over 100 more skins than the list I provided you, easily adding a huge value to the account)

I did not want the account anymore. I would not try to recover the account. Especially after having to go through all that changing information process for you.


Saying your accounts are any more secure than mine is a joke. I hear you haveskype imposters. We all use the same types of security, I invest a lot of time and money into my gaming and free time and don't do anything to foil that. Other than consigning my account to a company that doesn't protect it's partners.



When I consigned my account to you it was in perfect condition, no security breaches, no attempts to change my information that I did not know about, no problems AT ALL.

I entrusted you the account, you are supposed to take care of the product you are selling, are you telling me you leave that stuff to gather dust and then when you finally get the sale you hope the account will work? you don't even log-in to the email YOU had me crate to make sure the account is real? how is that a good or safe practice?



You deserve negative feedback for lack of attention to detail in and of itself. Not to mention the lack of communication, having to find out myself about the account being banned after you having it up fr sale on your website for over a month is appalling. But I can tell after seeing the small discussions on this thread you are using a loophole to avoid bad feedback by not actually performing any kind of consignment sales on this forum itself. You should not be bragging about 100% perfect feedback during your business times on your website when you use loopholes to bury the bad feedback. I have all the proof I need for bad feedback to exist. BAD COMMUNICATION.

I see the feedback has already been removed, that's a shame.

I don't want your sympathy, I want you to take responsibility for your lack of work.



This is the first time I have ever even thought about touching outside markets for video games, this account is my own just like every other account I have ever made. Now I understand why this type of crap is against ToS. It's a shady business full of shady people.

 

[MMO-Armory.com]

You are going all over the place.

Stay on topic, post the requested evidence.

Saying your accounts are any more secure than mine is a joke. I hear you haveskype imposters.

Having Skype imposters is completely irrelevant to account security.

Other than consigning my account to a company that doesn't protect it's partners.

How am I not protecting the partners? This is completely irrelevant. We keep information secure and not pass it along.

When I consigned my account to you it was in perfect condition, no security breaches, no attempts to change my information that I did not know about, no problems AT ALL.

You have had your account stolen before. We have already established this. And even if you haven't had breaches before, (1) This does not mean that future breaches from third parties are impossible, (2) this does not suddenly mean that future breaches are 100% definitely our fault.

------------------------------------------------------

Please stay relevant with the issue at hand, and focus on providing concrete evidence. You have failed to comply to the admin's requests to post the screenshots of the login history on your E-Mail. You have also not provided any evidence that excludes you out of fault from the ban, nor any evidence that proves that we have had anything to do with this.

 

[Birddbrain]

You are going all over the place.

Stay on topic, post the requested evidence.




Having Skype imposters is completely irrelevant to account security.



How am I not protecting the partners? This is completely irrelevant. We keep information secure and not pass it along.


[/COLOR]
You have had your account stolen before. We have already established this. And even if you haven't had breaches before, (1) This does not mean that future breaches from third parties are impossible, (2) this does not suddenly mean that future breaches are 100% definitely our fault.

------------------------------------------------------

Please stay relevant with the issue at hand, and focus on providing concrete evidence. You have failed to comply to the admin's requests to post the screenshots of the login history on your E-Mail. You have also not provided any evidence that excludes you out of fault from the ban, nor any evidence that proves that we have had anything to do with this.

I replied to every single thing you said, in order, that is not all over the place.


What email log-in history are you talking about? my gmail? I can provide the most recently used devices (all mine)..other than that I have nothing. If you're talking about outlook that is not my email account that is YOUR EMAIL. It is why you had me set the e-mail up, so I cannot recover of access the account during consign.

http://i.imgur.com/cLz3Smn.png


I don't understand why I am the one providing all the evidence, why do I have to prove that I am innocent for an account that is under your control getting banned?

Currently all you've done is call me a liar and how it's impossible that it could be your fault, without any evidence what-so-ever.

Should I post the email where it says I need to change all the information and lay off the account? I have not touched the account until the consign expired, at which point I tried to contact you via email, and was ignored for three days so I went to the email to see any progress, finding the ban hammer.

Why am I proving innocence while you are not providing anything to prove you weren't involved.

- - - Updated - - -

I totally missed the post requesting the login credentials, slipped past it reading the big posts. I will hunt down the login information and post the screenshot here when I get it.


I CANNOT access the login information without entering in a code sent to MMO-Armory.com's email. there is no way for me to access this information. I tried using my cell phone number to get the code but it takes 30 days for the phone number to be verified enough to access the information.

The ball is not in my court.

 

[MMO-Armory.com]

Birddbrain go the "Settings" page, click "Security & Privacy" then "See my recent activity"

That will show you every login to the outlook email account.

Post a screenshot of that page. I want to see who logged into the account on April 9th.

Please read the instructions EpicNPC provided.

You can only give me a negative rating if you know for a fact, that I am involved in this ban.

You are blaming me of something that you have no proof of.

If you want me to provide counter-evidence, you need to post yours, and I will respond accordingly. How do you expect someone to "post evidence" against wild accusations? There is nothing on the top of my head that I can post on my end until you have put up something relevant and significant.

Review again what I said:
1) I did not login to your account
2) I did not login to your E-Mail
3) I did not contact Riot

If you have any recommendations on how to provide evidence to the above, I will gladly comply.

If you have any evidence that relates your ban to actions on my end, then we would need to see that evidence.

If all you have is arguments, gut feeeling, and you want to connect coincidences with your ban case, then I believe its time to step back and retract that feedback you wrote.

You don't even know for sure how this ban happened and whether it for sure has to do with MMO-Armory. Read your statement: "The account was in my possession previously for YEARS without issue, and it's just too much of a coincidence for my account to be banned after the consign." Coincidences happen mate. You don't know for sure, don't blame, post evidence, or retract your feedback.

- - - Updated - - -

I am online now. "

Someone started a process to replace all of the security info for the Microsoft account bi*****@outlook.com.

"

You have the recovery E-Mail from our previos E-Mail logs (do not post that E-Mail here). Go and request the code and I'll give it to you here.

They are not asking you for the login credentials. They are asking you for the login history log of who has accessed your E-Mail during those dates.

- - - Updated - - -

------------------------------------------------------
Update
------------------------------------------------------


I am now logging in (for the first time ever) to the E-Mail you provided.


Here is the screenshot of your ban notification: https://www.dropbox.com/s/f2o2gn0xpwwkcq5/Screenshot 2015-06-19 03.36.44.jpg?dl=0


It states in violation of the Terms of Service. Considering we did not login to your account, nor your E-Mail, nor have we posted anything on our website that would pinpoint your account, this is significant proof that we have not caused any Terms of Service violation that has lead to your ban.


Finally, to further consolidate the evidence, here is the "Recent Activity" log as requested by EpicNPC: https://www.dropbox.com/s/j646hh21cy8b83n/Screenshot 2015-06-19 03.42.21.jpg?dl=0


I have taken the screenshot top to bottom on that page. As you can see, I have only logged in from Indonesia today, right now as I am taking these screenshots. The rest of the logins are yours.


As you noted there were attempts to change the information on 04/09/2015. Whoever attempted to have done so, has failed. How do we know this? Because they did not manage to use the codes riot sent to the E-Mail that only you and I have access to, and to this date, the account login, and registered e-mail remains the same.


Further investigation reveals that your account was being played a month ago. Please visit your lolking recent matches profile here: http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/198080#matches


Your account was played last month. This, might be the reason why your account was banned.


If you played these games, then review what you may have done during that period.


If you did not play those games, then you should consider running a virus/trojan/keylogger check to secure your computer. Keep in mind that if someone knows your personal e-mail's detail, they will see your outbox folder. If they see that, then they will know your account login, and will be able to login in game to play your account and do whatever ToS violating actions that they wish. It is important to note again here, that knowing the login lets them play your account and do negative things, however, since hotmail doesn't allow random logins without the security challenge that is set to my recovery e-mail, they would not be able to change any of your account info, but can play, and again, cause a ban.


And in case you're wondering, I don't play League of Legends. At all. I probably clocked 30 minutes max in this game. I am also not in the business of getting people's accounts banned. My goal is to consign, sell, make profit. If an account is banned due to our fault, then we can't sell it, because well, it's banned. So there is no motif for us to do such things. Not in our interest, and would be just plainly stupid.

Regarding the games played last month:
- It is not possible to determine who was logged in last month.
- The evidence provided cannot for certain pinpoint that a hacker was the one who logged in.
- The evidence I have provided gives strong indication that someone has logged in during that period and played matches.
- It also cannot prove that it was not you that logged in to play those matches.
- It also does not prove that I logged in to play.
--> You might want to ticket to Riot and ask them from what country was the account played on last month. Maybe you can even refute the ban stating to them that your account was compromised during the period.

The evidence provided does strongly indicate that an unauthorized person was on the account because:
(1) someone was playing on it
(2) someone tried to change info, but could not change the password or registered e-mail

To conclude:
(1) No evidence pinpoints MMO-Armory having direct relation to your ToS Violation ban
(2) Your E-Mail was not accessed by us during the entire consignment period, up until today.
(3) There is indication that an unauthorized party had access to your account. How, is a question mark. However, our systems are secure. Dealing with 1000+ accounts, yours would not be a singled out case. If a breach happened on our end, all hell would break lose by now.

I hope you can put your ego aside after seeing all this evidence and agree that this has nothing to do with me.

It is now 4Am where I live and I will leave it at that.

 

[doomedtofail]

Does the email show locations or ip of logins? your device list means nothing. because even your current device is different the the first device.

 

[Birddbrain]

That doesn't even make sense. The account was played after I gave it a brand new e-mail and a brand new password, with you being the only other person who knows that information. No, my computers are not compromised, gaming is my hobby and I take care of the tools correctly. You never have to log-in to that e-mail to use the account, literally never, you can even throw that e-mail to a paying customer and have him deal with the transfer to even further avoid your risk of involvement.


You were in possession of my account. It was yours by contract, the account was banned in that time.


You had the account in your possession for TWO MONTHS, and not a single time looked at it, not a single time made sure it was real? Why? why are you even putting a price on a product that might end up falling through?

The only thing this results in is a lost amount of potential money for me, no big deal, but it was a negative experience and I am unimpressed with the communication involved in the consignment, and upon further discussion with this event the lack of attention you give accounts after you become the owner. The actual length is only 21-days and you ended up having the account for two months before I decided to not have it signed anymore, I was not spoken to at all about the standing of the account, how it will remain on your website, anything. (No, that does not mean I decided to keep it, I was still going to sell it.)


Like I said, I had a NEGATIVE experience with you and your website. Which is why I am giving you NEGATIVE feedback, simple as that.

You deserve negative feedback. You probably won't get it because of strict feedback rules, but you deserve it.

 

[MMO-Armory.com]

@doomedtofail:


Yes, the E-Mail shows locations of IP legions. It says United States and Indonesia. The dropdown menu when clicked shows more detailed information with the IP. I did not post this for security reasons, don't know if it is allowed. I am screenshotting them now. The goal is in fact to show that the current device (my logins to the account) is different than the first device (not my logins). Here are the detailed screenshots with dropdowns expanded:


Page 1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/a63yisva9rhlab7/Screenshot 2015-06-19 11.46.11.jpg?dl=0
Page 2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lk6noplxjo9ajyd/Screenshot 2015-06-19 11.47.00.jpg?dl=0
Page 3: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vibkikmmb75q0n0/Screenshot 2015-06-19 11.47.17.jpg?dl=0

@birddrbain:

(1) You still have not been able to provide clear evidence linking the ban to MMO-Armory
(2) You still have not been able to provide clear evidence that excludes yourself from the Terms of Service Violation
(3) You cannot post negative feedback on a coincidence without providing clear evidence as noted on (1) and (2)
(4) You still have not contacted Riot to ask why your account was banned, and who was playing on the account during the last month (if that was related to the ban)

We have gone through multiple replies now with you going all over the place.

If no evidence is provided, please have the negative feedback removed.

Look, I am an honest businessman. If I know I caused the ban, I would just pay you. It's just $100. That is not worth scamming someone over. I am fighting you tooth and nail here because this is a matter of principle.

I have recommended this before. Contact Riot. You don't even know anything bout the ban at all (and already you have left me negative feedback). Contact Riot, ask (1) Why it was banned, (2) When was the Terms of Service Violation taken, (3) what country was the account accessed from when the ToS Violation actions took place. You can have more clarity that way. And if you are lucky, you might even get the account unbanned when you can prove to them that you were not the person violating their ToS (if you were indeed not violating their ToS).

Contacting Riot can be a very long ordeal as they take up to a week to reply to a single ticket.

Please have the negative feedback removed while we are waiting for this.

And as I said before $100 is not a lot of money. EpicNPC, if after birddbrain contacts Riot and indeed finds that we are at fault, I will buy the banned account from him. Until then, as the process will take a long time for him to contact Riot, I would like to ask to have the feedback removed until further information is provided.

I am willing to deposit $100 to EpicNPC's account to hold as an escrow until a set amount of time, to allow birddbrain to get clarity from Riot.

 

[EpicNPC]

Hmm, it seems the 'security' page only shows activity for the last 30 days, so we won't be able to find out what happened on April 9th.

March 28 - account given to MMO-armory to sell
April 9 - password/email change on lol account
May 21 - account banned

Can someone send me via PM the login info to the outlook account? I won't be able to access the 'security page' however I would like to see the inbox first hand.

 

[MMO-Armory.com]

Hmm, it seems the 'security' page only shows activity for the last 30 days, so we won't be able to find out what happened on April 9th.

March 28 - account given to MMO-armory to sell
April 9 - password/email change on lol account
May 21 - account banned

Can someone send me via PM the login info to the outlook account? I won't be able to access the 'security page' however I would like to see the inbox first hand.

The login to the E-Mail has been sent to your E-Mail.

Birddbrain, are you going to contact Riot and ask about why you were banned, and who was logged in and from where? It has been over 24 hours without your response.

There is no evidence to link the cause of the ban with birddbrain.
There is no evidence to link the cause of the ban with MMO-Armory.

EpicNPC, have you considered the proposal to escrow the cost of the account until the case is closed or evidence is provided, while removing the negative rating? It feels very unjust that it is still there. There is absolutely no evidence provided so far that links this ban with us.

- - - Updated - - -

------------------------------------------------------
Last update before I may have difficulty signing into the forums for a while
------------------------------------------------------


Birddbrain:
- How can one prove beyond any reasonable doubt with strong evidence that MMO-Armory caused this ban?
- How can one prove beyond any reasonable doubt with strong evidence that you were not involved in the account closure?
- How can one prove beyond any reasonable doubt with strong evidence that your personal E-Mail that contains your full account information, was never compromised?
- How can one prove beyond any reasonable doubt with strong evidence that you have never been phished?
- How can one prove beyond any reasonable doubt with strong evidence that you have never been keylogged?
- How can one prove beyond any reasonable doubt with strong evidence that you have never traded this account was never sold, traded, or shared with a third party?
- How can one prove beyond any reasonable doubt with strong evidence that you are the original owner of this account? Riot Accounts are not associated with personal names. It only comes with security infos and first e-mail. All of which can be shared from a third party.


With the difficulties to prove any of above, and all of the cross-factors, it not fair nor logical to conclude that your account ban is related to MMO-Armory.


The situation is the same for me.


- How can I prove that I did not login at all to your account? I did not, but there is no way to prove that.
- How can I prove that I did not login to your E-Mail during the period? I did not. But as we see above, the Outlook systems only logs activities as far as 30 days ago.
- How can I prove that I did not ban your account? That's difficult as well. How do I prove something that I didn't do? What trails are there of things that a person doesn't do? There are no trails hence nothing to show.


This is a dead end. There is no proof.


I have been here long enough and I maintain the highest level of integrity. I would not cheat someone out of $100.


You know yourself for a fact that you don't even know if I caused this ban or not. It just happened to occur while you had your account consigned with us. This does not mean for a fact that we are at fault, you know this.


It will be difficult for me to reply here for the next 2 weeks so hopefully this gets resolved before then.


My offer still stands to deposit $100 to EpicNPC if you would like to contact Riot and find who/fromwhere was your account logged in from when it was played last month. And as I said, if it is to be my fault, you can take the $100 so I would be purchasing the account. But I can say now with 100% confidence that you will not find such evidence. I kindly request that the negative feedback be removed during the lengthy ticketing period with Riot.

 

[EpicNPC]

Email login info received, but I couldn't access it because the security code was sent to another email.

Are either of you accepting responsibility for the password/email change on April 9th? or are you both denying it was you?


http://www.epicnpc.com/threads/535279-League-of-Legends-Dispute-Rules

1) If a recall claim is made by the buyer and no proof is provided by either party (as nearly all LoL recalls are), the seller will have to either provide a refund or 2nd account.
-- Once this happens, regardless of what happens after, the dispute is resolved and no bans will be issued.

If no evidence is obtained showing fault, then I will apply our LoL Dispute rules. We can just change the "recall" text to "ban" in this case.

Before we get to that part, I would still like to access the email account. Birddbrain please create a support ticket with Riot and try to get more info about the ban or to get the ban overturned.

 

[EpicNPC]

I haven't been able to access the account because a security code is required due to IP change when logging in.

I did receive some screenshots from MMOarmory, however it does not provide enough evidence to say who accessed the account in April 9th.

Based on my inability to even access the email, I would imagine Birddbrain wouldn't have been able to access it either.

You stated the account was moved to a new email, which I'm assuming is the bigwill*****@outlook.com email. In order to access that email, a security code is sent to sham*****@hotmail.com. Did Birddbrain have access to both those emails?

 

[MMO-Armory.com]

I've been trying to send you the code as timely as possible. We can keep trying. Otherwise, the screenshots I provided shows as much as the E-Mail can possibly show. The E-Mail to my knowledge will not reveal who was involved in the ban, who was innocent etc, or even why the ban happen.

When we consign accounts, we ask owners to not provide their personal E-Mail. Hence, we ask them to change their LoL account's E-Mail to a new one, that we would both have access to. We ask them to let us know what the new Outlook address is, and ask them what they selected as the new password. Account owners are always given full access to their LoL Account, and its registered E-Mail address. During the entire consignment phase, we will not change or even log in to any of these to make sure accounts are unharmed in any way. So to answer your question, yes, Birddbrain has access to the bigwill*****@outlook.com E-Mail. The sham**** E-Mail only I have access to. The reason why we ask consignees to set their recovery E-Mail to sham***** is so that when an account is purchased, on account delivery day, we can ensure that access to the account is unhindered. For consignees, they will usually not have any problems accessing the new Outlook they created (even with the sham***** recovery address), as Outlook only triggers the security challenge when an account is accessed from a new IP/Device. In an emergency situation, a consignee can provide personal details to Outlook (its on the login form) and it's semi-automated, if semi-correct answers are provided, the systems will provide the person with a password reset and access to the account.


The creator of the account should normally be able to login straight away to the account as their IP is logged with hotmail. When someone logs from a different IP or Device then the security code challenge is triggered.


Access to the e-mail is not related to the ban. If Bird had access to the e-mail, it does not mean he caused the ban, it also doesn't mean he didn't cause the ban. The same applies whether I had access to the E-Mail or not. As I am in control of the sham*** E-Mail, then it would be easier for me to access the E-Mail. However, it is unrelated to ban cause.


What the E-Mail inbox does indicate was that on the 9th of April, -someone- did login to the LOL Account (emphasis: not the e-mail, but the lol account). The person who logged in to the LoL Account -did- attempt to change the password/registered e-mail, hence the code sent by Riot. The person who logged did not manage to change it, because they did not have access to the E-Mail. If it were me or bird trying to change the account's e-mail or password, we could do it instantly. I can use my recovery E-Mail. Bird might still have access, if not, all he needs to do is send tickets to Riot from his original IP and they will switch the E-Mail.


Having the LOL username password but not the e-mail access is as strong of an indication as can be that an unauthorised third party outside of me or Birdd gaining access to the account.


- April 9 = Unauthorized account access
- April = Match history played on LoLKing
- Soon after account = banned


Anyhow, there is still no evidence linking me with the ban. It's really unfair that someone can make an accusation like that without facts, and extremely frustrating on one's end when they know they did not do any harmful actions. Birdd has yet to respond again here, and birdd has not even indicated that he is willing to contact Riot to find out what happened. Is it time to remove the negative feedback yet until someone can prove something?

 

[EpicNPC]

The codes time out very quick. Even when I get a reply within 30 mins it's already expired.

Birddbrain created the bigwill*****@outlook.com email account
Birddbrain did not have access to the sham***** email recovery account
Since Birddbrain created the email bigwill***** he would not be asked the security code which means both Birddbrain and MMO-Armory had full access to the bigwill**** email and the LoL account.

This brings us back to square one.

MMO-Armory[/COLOR]]What the E-Mail inbox does indicate was that on the 9th of April, -someone- did login to the LOL Account (emphasis: not the e-mail, but the lol account). The person who logged in to the LoL Account -did- attempt to change the password/registered e-mail, hence the code sent by Riot. The person who logged did not manage to change it, because they did not have access to the E-Mail. If it were me or bird trying to change the account's e-mail or password, we could do it instantly. I can use my recovery E-Mail. Bird might still have access, if not, all he needs to do is send tickets to Riot from his original IP and they will switch the E-Mail.

That's a good point, I was under the impression that the email/password was changed because of those emails from April 9th. However if you're confirming the password and email on the actual LoL account never changed, then yes, that email on April 9th would be a failed attempt.

Birddbrain[/COLOR]]My account was stolen during the massive security leak on riot servers a year ago, it was a very common problem, the championship thresh was just a nice bonus from whoever got ripped off into buying it I guess. The recovery process went simply and quickly because I was able to provide all of my information instantly and accurately, it is my own created account after all.

Birddbrain confirms here he is the original owner of the account. He also confirms that it was stolen previously.

Birddbrain the email your received from Riot does not provide any info. Can you reply to it and claim a hack? You stated your info was compromised previously, so you can just say you think that same person is trying to steal it again and we'll see what Riot replies with.

I changed the feedback title since it was inaccurate and changed it to neutral until this is resolved.

Birddbrain has been email notified for an update.

 

[Birddbrain]

The password for the outlook account is now changed and I have no access to it.

I really don't have the time to keep coming back to complain about a service I will never be using again, especially when I'm being jerked around.


MMO Armory also takes control of the Riot support account connected to the account, I cannot do anything.

I can't even log-in to the account on the website to view my ban, it says the password is wrong. But apparently that's impossible because the information was never changed, according to MMO Armory.

A quote from the consignment e-mails; By sending us this information, you also agree that we will use the information above and exchange tickets with Riot to confirm the ownership of the account. This will also move the account's E-Mail to ours, and a new password will be sent to us. If the account has been recovered or sold, or shared with other persons before, this may end up having your account suspended. If you send us your information, you acknowledge these risks. If the account has never been shared or sold before, it is unlikely for situations such as those to happen. The security information may also be used by us or a third party in the event that account access has been lost and that we need to recover it.



MMO Armory had me agree to the changing of the password, so I assume that's why it is different now.










- - - Updated - - -

Sorry, the quote is the same color as the background for whatever reason.

"By sending us this information, you also agree that we will use the information above and exchange tickets with Riot to confirm the ownership of the account. This will also move the account's E-Mail to ours, and a new password will be sent to us. If the account has been recovered or sold, or shared with other persons before, this may end up having your account suspended. If you send us your information, you acknowledge these risks. If the account has never been shared or sold before, it is unlikely for situations such as those to happen. The security information may also be used by us or a third party in the event that account access has been lost and that we need to recover it."

- - - Updated - - -

"Anyhow, there is still no evidence linking me with the ban. It's really unfair that someone can make an accusation like that without facts, and extremely frustrating on one's end when they know they did not do any harmful actions. Birdd has yet to respond again here, and birdd has not even indicated that he is willing to contact Riot to find out what happened. Is it time to remove the negative feedback yet until someone can prove something?"

I know I did not do any harmful actions. It is frustrating for me, too.

 

[doomedtofail]

You are not being jerked around this is called being thorough and finding out what really happened.

 

[EpicNPC]

At this time there is no proof one way or the other who caused the ban. It seems the leading guess is that a 3rd party attempted to recall it, failed and got it banned instead.

MMOArmory and Birddbrain, I would like for one of you to open a support ticket with RIOT disputing the ban and asking why it was banned to begin with. You can decide who does this. Since Birddbrain is the original owner you should have all the info you need.

Please update once the ticket has been opened and once RIOT replies, please send me a screenshot via PM of the ticket.

[HIDE=4455]
Birddbrain doesn't need to see this. I don't want him not helping MMOArmory so he can try to win by default.

1) If no ticket is submitted, I will be ruling in favor of Birddbrain based on our LoL Dispute rules.
2) If Riot states someone attempted to recall the account by providing info, then the ruling will be in favor of MMOArmory since the recall attempt has nothing to do with him. But in this case hopefully Birddbrain can just get his account unbanned.[/HIDE]

 

[MMO-Armory.com]

Birdd, please understand that no one here is trying to jerk you around. You brought up an issue here and being thorough is of course necessary.

I think there is still a chance that you can get the account reinstated. I understand that you state you don't have the time to go back and through here and with riot. Considering you do not know why the account was banned, it would have been beneficial on your end to contact Riot first, before going on here. Maybe the account would have even been reinstated by now if the ban/violation reason is something disputable.

Since bans can be uplifted within the right reasons, it would be most beneficial if you write Riot tickets Bird. If you will not write tickets, then I will. If I write the ticket, the chances of you having the account reinstated will be less compared to if you wrote your own tickets.

Riot responds well when the original owner writes tickets to them. They have an IP log and device log. For example, an original owner can recover a LoL account within 1-2 tickets. A non-original owner will get 5-8 tickets from Riot. With 4 working days reply in between so that can take over a month if I am to write the tickets, and it is likely that I will not receive actioanable information at the end of the day.

One particular situation where having me write the tickets would be harmful is if the ban is related to account recovery by multiple parties (emphasis: we do not know if this is the ban cause, but since you have had account compromise before, it is possible). If that were the cause, to have another party (me) contact them, from a different IP, with less than perfect security verification information (as I only have the last information that you sent me), it would only confirm to Riot that there are even more parties attempting to recover the account and the account would definitely be permanently suspended.

Regarding your claim that I have changed your Riot Support access account: Negative, I have never accessed it at all nor changed it. You know what, have you even tried logging into your Riot support account? Because it worked just fine for me right this second. Have you even tried logging into your support account before claiming that I changed the information?

Screenshot of your support tickets: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9tqnaarn00qczm9/Screenshot 2015-06-25 13.12.34.jpg?dl=0

Anyhow, Bird, on a personal note directly to you: I had no involvement in your account being banned and I once again sympathise for your situation. I understand you are frustrated but you should not blame people when you don't really know what's really going on. I do hope you can get your account unbanned.

To close the case, we will need tickets with Riot to (1) find out why it was banned (2) hopefully be able to get it unbanned. Bird, you need to respond regarding whether you would prefer if you write the tickets to Riot, or whether you want me to write them.

 

[EpicNPC]

Birddbrain please confirm once you have submitted a Riot Support ticket.

 

[MMO-Armory.com]

Birddbrain, do you want to write the ticket? Please let us know what your plan is as we are waiting to resolve this.

If you do not intend to write the tickets, I can, but I would need your permission. As mentioned previously, your best hopes of getting your account reinstated would be if you contacted them. A third party from a different device/IP makes it more likely that the account would not be reinstated. Please respond soon.

 

[EpicNPC]

Birddbrain has been email notified. If there's no reply in 48 hrs, go ahead and open the support ticket.

 

[MMO-Armory.com]

I have contacted Riot on Birddbrain's behalf on request of EpicNPC and it has been concluded by Riot GMs that the account was permanently suspended for multiple account compromise and recovery attempts from an undisclosed amount of parties.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a1ngjwmntzphd7s/Screenshot 2015-07-15 11.25.13.jpg?dl=0

Screenshots and more information has been sent to EpicNPC.

 

[EpicNPC]

Based on the reply from Riot, it seems that someone else did try to recover it, failed and got the account banned.

There's no reason for MMO-Armory do recall an account he already had full access to and since you had stated it was hacked a year ago, it could very well be someone trying to hack into it again.

I can't blame MMO-Armory for the ban as it seems the account was high-risk to begin with.

Feedback has been removed.