False Negative Feedback - Price Confusing.

[SetsunaEpic]

The buyer got his account correctly and received it within 24 hours as confirmed. He got his account cheaper than the actual price of $10 because we do not want to charge more if the account is already an ML + Limited.
Confusing with Price Guideline despite carefully explained to him. The reason we had a plus next to price is due to account limitations and stocks.
For selective starter, price is always true for up to 95% of the current accounts as buyers also stated. 5% is due to the limited stock and rarity.
Moon Light Vildred now defaults from $150 to $200. It can't be $6 according to the price guide due to out of stock for half of the year.
We also never said 1 ml + triple limited is $165. If it was Moon Light Vildred + Triple limited. Is it true price can be up to $500.

That's why we had a disclaimer:
Limited/Rare Characters are based on popularity and demands. Thus, the price can be different.


Price List:
Any 1 x 5* Moon Light Hero = $5+
Any 2 x 5* Moon Light Hero = $15+
Any 1 x 5* Normal Hero = $2.5+
Any 1 x 5* Limited Hero = $6+
Any x 4* Moon Light Hero = FREE


https://www.epicnpc.com/feedback/feedback/500793/view

 

[ryukenhero]

For the comment about the ML + 3 Limited, you're right, I misread that part. My apologies.

Please read this before continuing.
When I say pricing guidelines, it is referring to the price list that is stated to us on EpicNPC.
When I say pricing pattern, it is referring to their prices shown on the seller's website.

First of all. The feedback was and is NOT about the account that was received. There was nothing wrong with it and its contents.
The price of the account was accepted and already paid for. And yes, you are right, I did receive it within 24 hours after purchase, but I don't think there is anything wrong with giving your potential customers a time frame from someone who has already bought an account.
Despite having given me a deal, this doesn't change what this feedback is for and what it is about.

This feedback is about the transaction and the experience.

Secondly, the pricing guidelines (ML + Limited Combo, etc.) were explained and clarified to me after the price check.
That is why I asked why the account had a higher price as it would have been normally cheaper if it followed the guidelines listed on EpicNPC.
That was when I was told about the ML + Limited and other various combinations.

And as I have said previously on that feedback, if you had simply shared that kind of information on your listing here at EpicNPC, the confusion would have been prevented.

Please do know that once the other pricing guidelines, their pricing patterns that is, were stated and clarified to me, I did not try to haggle, negotiate, or dispute their pricing. I simply respected what was said and proceeded to find a different account.

And you're right, you do have a disclaimer that states:
Limited/Rare Characters are based on popularity and demands. Thus, the price can be different.

And yet the only thing you have brought up is A. Vildred and you're right about that. But this is the only thing that you have brought up that this disclaimer applies to.
I was never confused and or angry about the pricing on A. Vildred as it was expected due to supply and demand. In fact, I was never interested in buying an account with him in it anyways.

So, I'll let you in on a little secret, the account that I was trying to find, were accounts that had both a Judge Kise and a Baiken.

And here is the thing. You did not say that Judge Kise and or Baiken was priced higher than normal due to popularity and demand, but because the account had a ML + Limited and so on (ML + Limited x2, etc.).
This is what I have been referring to mind you.

What I think should be added to the disclaimer:
Accounts with both Limited and Rare Characters may be priced differently. Thus, the price may be different.

This would help prevent customers from being misled and confused.

Now, while I would have ended this here, let us talk about the pricing. During the clarification part, you simply referred me to your website to check out the pricing pattern if I had any other questions.
You did, of course, tell me that the normal pricing guidelines would apply if I were to purchase an account with 1 ML or 1 Limited. And yet why is there that exception for selective character accounts and not your other listings?

Your character selective service takes me to three different catalogs. I'm going to assume that the pricing guidelines apply to all three websites aside from the accounts with the disclaimer.
Now let us take a look at your pricing pattern for one non-popular ML + 1 ~ 5 x normal 5*, unverified Stove, name changeable, chapters 1-4 done, 5-20 Leif, and 10-50 bookmarks.
It's $15.
So are you going to say that if I simply wanted an account with 1 ML and 1 normal 5*, it'll be $15 because you're referencing your pricing pattern, or is it $7.50 because the normal pricing guidelines now apply since it is 1 ML?
Let's look at this another way, 1 ML and 5 normal 5*, will it be $15 because you're referencing your pricing pattern, or $17.50 because of the pricing guidelines.

But this doesn't really paint the whole picture, does it?

Let's look at another one, an example really close to my case in fact.
You have two similar listings as a reference for the pricing pattern.

5 * ML Kise + 1 optional 5* Limited + 4 - 13 Normal 5*
Goes for $49.99

5 * ML Kise + 1 random 5* ML + 1 - 5 Normal 5*
Goes for $45.00

Then what I bought:
5 * ML Kise + 1 x 5* Baiken + 12 Normal 5*

I was told $30 ~ $40 because 1 ML + 1 Limited.
Then I was quoted $35.
But turns out it was actually $45 because of their pricing pattern.
And I had now apparently bought it at a discount for $35.00 instead.
Yay me!
But do you see it though?
1 ML + 1 Limited should have been $49.99.
The pricing that the seller has set for themselves are all over the place.

But the biggest one of them all:
5 * ML Kise + 1 random 5* ML + 1 - 5 Normal 5*

First of all, one of your pricing guidelines states that 2 ML is $15.
Assuming that I wanted to buy 2 non-popular ML 5* with 5 normal 5* heroes, would I have been quoted $45 because of the pricing pattern? Or $27.50 because of the pricing guidelines?

All in all, the real question here is, do you even use the pricing guidelines you've listed on Epicnpc? It is just simply misleading? Or is it a lie?
But that is, of course, a question for you and your next customers.
Of course, this question becomes moot when you say that 1 x 5* ML $5+ can be $12. I mean, there is nothing I can really do to dispute that, after all, it is now up to interpretation.
But this makes it even more important to clarify as one may also see it as adding $5 of value to the account rather than it being valued $5 to infinity.

Please do know that I did not say that I would never buy from you guys ever again, but this is definitely disappointing.
To claim that my negative feedback of the prices being misleading is false?
Blasphemy.
Feedback is feedback, I'm leaving this here for you in order to help you improve, not to slander and villainize you. But well, if you truly see it that way, by all means, go ahead.

But I would now like to rest my case.
Rather than trying to point out all the flaws that I see that should be worked on, all I simply want to do now is to enjoy the account I have purchased and hope that SetsunaEPIC revises their pricing guidelines as well as being more transparent with their customers.
You may have well over 6000 positive feedback, but it doesn't excuse you guys from this.

Below are the screenshots of our conversation for more information.

While the seller may have believed that the transaction was a positive one, I saw it otherwise.

Thank you and good luck on your future endeavors.

 

[SetsunaEpic]

First of all, Price Guidelines are required when linking a website. It's a basic requirement and a rule here on EpicNPC.

Secondly, there are multiple catalogs. Price Guide is not always true to the 5% of the entire catalogs. It only applies to 95% of the entire collection, you stated yourself. You can't expect a rare combo that follows the exact price guide. That's why we have Disclaimers.

If the ml is ML Vildred with limited. The price is not $30~40. It's over $150 account. Price is flexible for selective. My packages on the website are rare and limited thus price is not followed by the guideline. If you can find someone who has the same one, just bought from them.

Thirdly, you already received your desire account within the delivery time frame.

Lastly, the reason you see this price is because a Special product like this is no longer available on the entire market. The different catalog has a different price tag. Go ask any single Epic7 Seller if they can find an ML Cecilia + a Limited. Price won't be as low as $30 as price guidelines.
It was out of stock in the entire world.

Again, ML Kise + Limited is not always a $35 account. It should be more than $35. There is no search function for the ML Kise + Seaside Bellona because it was out of stock. Unlike selective, the package on the website has a chance for SS Bellona if the buyer asking which I still have a couple available in my storage.
It's the optional Limited for buyer choice.

 

[SetsunaEpic]

@EpicNPC CM Product was as advertised, delivered within the time frame, and confirmed by the buyer.

 

[EpicNPC]

If a seller links to their website, they must include prices in their threads. The customer should be able to view prices without clicking the link to their website. Depending on the service or item being sold, the price list could be huge or complicated if there's lot of tiers or combinations. We allow sellers to summarize their prices in generic terms to give the buyer an idea of the prices, but they might not be exact.


Feedback shows :

ML 5* + Limited = $30 ~ $40
ML 5* + Limited x 2 = $65
ML 5* + Limited x 3 = $155
Limited x 3 = $55 ~ $65

Sale thread shows:

Any 1 x 5* Moon Light Hero = $5+
Any 2 x 5* Moon Light Hero = $15+
Any 1 x 5* Normal Hero = $2.5+
Any 1 x 5* Limited Hero = $6+
Any x 4* Moon Light Hero = FREE

I'm sorry, but I don't know what this means because I don't play the game.

It appears ryukenhero wanted a Moon Light Hero + limited heroes (1), correct?

I don't understand how this works. How do I figure out a price?

Any 1 x 5* Moon Light Hero = $5+
Any 1 x 5* Limited Hero = $6+

Do you combine these to get a price? $11 for a ML Hero + 5 limited ?

 

[SetsunaEpic]

If a seller links to their website, they must include prices in their threads. The customer should be able to view prices without clicking the link to their website. Depending on the service or item being sold, the price list could be huge or complicated if there's lot of tiers or combinations. We allow sellers to summarize their prices in generic terms to give the buyer an idea of the prices, but they might not be exact.


Feedback shows :

ML 5* + Limited = $30 ~ $40
ML 5* + Limited x 2 = $65
ML 5* + Limited x 3 = $155
Limited x 3 = $55 ~ $65

Sale thread shows:

Any 1 x 5* Moon Light Hero = $5+
Any 2 x 5* Moon Light Hero = $15+
Any 1 x 5* Normal Hero = $2.5+
Any 1 x 5* Limited Hero = $6+
Any x 4* Moon Light Hero = FREE

I'm sorry, but I don't know what this means because I don't play the game.

It appears ryukenhero wanted a Moon Light Hero + limited heroes (1), correct?

I don't understand how this works. How do I figure out a price?

Any 1 x 5* Moon Light Hero = $5+
Any 1 x 5* Limited Hero = $6+

Do you combine these to get a price? $11 for a ML Hero + 5 limited ?

Here is full description:

Price List:
Any 1 x 5* Moon Light Hero = $5+
Any 2 x 5* Moon Light Hero = $15+
Any 1 x 5* Normal Hero = $2.5+
Any 1 x 5* Limited Hero = $6+
Any x 4* Moon Light Hero = FREE

Limited/Rare Characters are based on popularity and demands. Thus, the price can be different.

The above price is basically true for 95~99% of the entire collection, multiple catalogs.
Meaning, If you pick a Moonlight character ( Very Rare units and expensive to get), it will be the exact normal price. 1 5* Moonlight = $5 and 1 normal 5* Heroes = $2.5. Sometimes, when the account gets too many normal 5*. We reduced the price to a fixed price to give the buyer a better deal like the one we did to the buyer above.
For example, 1 Moonlight 5* + 15 x Normal 5* Heroes. If follow the price guideline, it should be $5 + $37.5 = $42.5. We reduce the price back to $30 or $35 because 1 Moonlight account is not too rare and easy to get except for popular demand. We even had a good deal with single Moon Light or Single Limited as packages.

Now, with 1 Moonlight + 1 Limited ( Limited Time only. Usually 1 time a year to get). It becomes very limited and rare at this point due to unable to produce new accounts due to Dev policy.
This also depends on a different combination of the account. The more popular demands, the higher the price.
For example, his account is 1 Moonlight + 1 Limited. Not all Limited are the same price. We have Popular Limited and Unpopular Limited but it's still rare compare to others. Popular Limited is the one in really high demand, basically sold out and rare. Unpopular Limited is the one leftover.
A popular one will increase the price greatly up to $40~$50 Extra or even more. The unpopular one still increases as well up to $15~$30. His account falling under Unpopular one thus price increased up to $15~30 That why it has + sign. We tried to restrain the price increased and give the buyer a more normal 5*.
Single Limited will fall under price guidelines, meaning it will be $6.

Depend on different popular demands such as Moon Light Vildred who is basically out of stock in the entire world for almost a year ago, he is no longer a $5 unit but a $200 unit.

If Popular Moon Light Units with Popular Limited, price is not a simple price but how much buyers willing to pay for it.

Another example is that if the buyer picking 3 Moon Light Units. Price won't be 5+5+5 = $15. It should be more than 100~300 depend on the popular demand units. These accounts are extremely rare.

To make this simpler, taking World of Warcraft for example. You are selling PVP Mount Accounts for like $50 each. But if you have an Extra PvP Mount to that account, the price is not $50+$50. It will be something like $300ish.

This is why we ask the buyer to consult before making payment.
The buyer got his account correct, delivered on time, price reduced, and more heroes. It's basically giving him a better deal but ended up complaining about it. His bought account is falling under the Price guidelines of $45 but cheaper $10.

 

[EpicNPC]

Your using the word "any" when this is not accurate, it's should be "most" because as you said some are very rare or in high demand so they have different prices.

The disclaimer you have is good.

Limited/Rare Characters are based on popularity and demands. Thus, the price can be different.

However ryukenhero is arguing it's not good enough.

What I think should be added to the disclaimer:
Accounts with both Limited and Rare Characters may be priced differently. Thus, the price may be different.

Personally I think this is very similar to what's already there.

I think changing the word from "any" to "most" would be a better solution since it makes it obvious there are exceptions. I think the disclaimer is okay the way it is.

That said, I'm not sure a negative feedback is justified when there was an disclaimer. I agree that the way it was posted could cause some confusion, but I think neutral would be more acceptable so I changed it to neutral.

 

[SetsunaEpic]

Your using the word "any" when this is not accurate, it's should be "most" because as you said some are very rare or in high demand so they have different prices.

The disclaimer you have is good.



However ryukenhero is arguing it's not good enough.



Personally I think this is very similar to what's already there.

I think changing the word from "any" to "most" would be a better solution since it makes it obvious there are exceptions. I think the disclaimer is okay the way it is.

That said, I'm not sure a negative feedback is justified when there was an disclaimer. I agree that the way it was posted could cause some confusion, but I think neutral would be more acceptable so I changed it to neutral.

It has been there for the past 2.4 years. 20000 customers understand the concept of Moonlight and Limited. Multiple catalogs have multiple different prices. They are as dirt cheap compare to spending thousands. Any units is true but not with the rare combination and popular demands as disclaimed. The moment he searches on the catalog website. He already knows the rare ones are rare and it should be much more expensive. That why all sellers had + sign next to the price guide. I never had stated Any 1 ML + 1 Limited = xx amount.
His statement about 1 ml + 3 Limited is $155 is also not true at all. It's an example.

With such price guidelines, it will be an A4 paper for such price guidelines.

Accounts with both Limited and Rare Characters may be priced differently. Thus, the price may be different.
Accounts with 2 Moon Lights Characters may be priced differently. Thus, the price may be different.
Accounts with 1 Moon Lights Character, 1 seasonal character, 1 collab character may be priced differently. Thus, the price may be different.
Accounts with 1 Moon Lights Character, 1 character that has a skin may be priced differently. Thus, the price may be different.
Accounts with 1 Moon Lights Character, Have more resources. Thus, the price may be different.
Accounts with 3 Moon Lights Characters may be priced differently. Thus, the price may be different.

It's basically endless guidelines.

 

[ryukenhero]

Your using the word "any" when this is not accurate, it's should be "most" because as you said some are very rare or in high demand so they have different prices.

The disclaimer you have is good.



However ryukenhero is arguing it's not good enough.



Personally I think this is very similar to what's already there.

I think changing the word from "any" to "most" would be a better solution since it makes it obvious there are exceptions. I think the disclaimer is okay the way it is.

That said, I'm not sure a negative feedback is justified when there was an disclaimer. I agree that the way it was posted could cause some confusion, but I think neutral would be more acceptable so I changed it to neutral.

Perfectly fine. I can understand where you're coming from. But the way that I see it is that --
Limited/Rare Characters are based on popularity and demands. Thus, the price can be different.
-- how would I know that buying an account with a mix match of an ML and a Limited would be priced much more differently?
From that disclaimer alone, I would understand that popular characters can be priced much higher. And in conjunction with the pricing guidelines on EpicNPC, I would assume that any other Limited/Rare character that is not popular would be at the base price.
As an example to make my point clear,
A. Vildred, a very popular ML character, and a random Limited of your choice assuming that they are also not popular, Luna, Dizzy, Elphelt, Baiken, Diene, etc...
Let's say that A. Vildred's market price is $80, but the standard market price still applies for a Limited, so $6.
With the disclaimer, it would imply that A. Vildred + a Limited would = $80 + $6 to me.
However, what it actually means is that A. Vildred + a Limited could be $100, $200, or $300 instead and I wouldn't even know why until it is explained.
And that is because the disclaimer that they are using doesn't take into account if the said account has other Limited/Rare characters.
Therefore it is confusing and misleading.

And for your information SetsunaEpic, the disclaimer I suggested--
Accounts with both Limited and Rare Characters may be priced differently. Thus, the price may be different.
-- doesn't have to be used.
It would and could easily imply everything that you have stated here if you thought about how you could change it to make it more clear to your customers.
For example, it could be this instead:
The price of the accounts may vary depending on their resources and amount of Limited/Rare characters (i.e ML + Limited, ML + Limited x2, etc..).
This could easily imply almost all of the things you have stated below.
Accounts with 2 Moon Lights Characters may be priced differently. Thus, the price may be different.
-Sigh, I mean, I guess? You might as well just say most 2x ML rather than any if you're refusing to change or add to your disclaimer for whatever reasons.
Accounts with 1 Moon Lights Character, 1 seasonal character, 1 collab character may be priced differently. Thus, the price may be different.
Accounts with 1 Moon Lights Character, 1 character that has a skin may be priced differently. Thus, the price may be different.
Accounts with 1 Moon Lights Character, Have more resources. Thus, the price may be different.
Accounts with 3 Moon Lights Characters may be priced differently. Thus, the price may be different.

However, I do not know why you are exaggerating it, but my apologies, it appears that my explanation to you was not good enough.
And yes, sorry for being a customer who did not understand your pricing guidelines.
It appears that I must know the prices intuitively with only the information that I can gather from the pricing stated on EpicNPC, the assumption that your buyer, me, would use your pricing reference on your website, and as well as information from other sellers to your benefit.
I'll keep that in mind the next time I participate in account buying with you (if that ever happens).

Sigh. And one more thing. I've been reading through your posts and there is one thing that I do want to make clear and I'll say it again just adding in some more details now.
Notice how I asked you what the price range for ML + Limited was?
$30 to $40, correct?
After that, I snooped around your catalog to find different accounts because I thought, Why not? It's between $30 and $40.
Once I found a few of them, I was quoted $35.
I was like, Okay, that's fine.
But once I decided to purchase it, you went and said, word by word,
"according to the price guide this should be $45 but it has a limi
so it recommended to pick more 5*
with ml and limited"
-- as a way to make me feel better about my choice and purchase.
And to be completely fair, it was a deal. After all, if I had bought the account, according to the pricing guidelines listed on EpicNPC, I could have paid around $41 instead, or $45 ($49.99?) because of your pricing pattern.
But was it really a service? Or an excuse to cover up your mistake?
But sure. Let me give you the benefit of the doubt and say that it was a service and simply a mistake made by human error.
But that is beside the point, the matter is, your prices, at that time and probably even now, were misleading and confusing.

But I am confused about one thing,
You said, "I never had stated Any 1 ML + 1 Limited = xx amount."
But why did you answer "$30 ~ $40" when I asked you about the 1 ML + 1 Limited when you could have simply said that it depends on the characters...
Sigh.
You do know that I have screenshots of our conversation attached to this dispute right?
And I'm pretty sure you also have your chat history as well.

Oh, I forgot to mention, on my feedback, I did correct the 1 ML + 3 Limited = $155.
That was probably one of the first things that I did after reading your first post and going over our chat history.
I did not erase it but crossed it out in order to show you and the readers that I was wrong about that.
I still don't know why it is still being brought up even now.

However, @EpicNPC CM , thank you very much for settling this. If it's fine with you, I think I've said everything that there needs to be said and would no longer like to participate in this dispute as I don't think the seller actually understands what I am trying to say here.
For your sake and mine, I'm fine with your judgment.
I'm sure that they've already gotten what they came here to accomplish.

 

[SetsunaEpic]

Oh, I forgot to mention, on my feedback, I did correct the 1 ML + 3 Limited = $155.

It's basically the ability to read at this point. There are Multiple Catalogs. The price can't be the same. It's a guideline, not an actual price.

A. Vildred, a very popular ML character, and a random Limited of your choice assuming that they are also not popular, Luna, Dizzy, Elphelt, Baiken, Diene, etc...

Let's say that A. Vildred's market price is $80, but the standard market price still applies for a Limited, so $6.
With the disclaimer, it would imply that A. Vildred + a Limited would = $80 + $6 to me.
However, what it actually means is that A. Vildred + a Limited could be $100, $200, or $300 instead and I wouldn't even know why until it is explained.

This is why Disclaimer is taking into consideration. Because we required to put a Price Guideline but in fact, nobody wants to put a price on each of every account if there are hundreds of thousands of accounts. This is why price quotes exist. This is a price guide not a fixed price. Consultation is required.
The first thing you see on my thread is basically a $235 account and according to price guidelines, it should be $40.
Any 1 x 5* Moon Light Hero = $5+ meaning it could be $5~$20~$50~$100
$5+ is not a $5 always $5, it true for 95% of multiple catalogs. All sellers have the same guideline.

Example below, We see 2 ML + 1 limited = $235. Confusing much? Just simply ask.

https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/setsunaepic-comall-server-all-ml-starter-epic-seven-accounts-story-1-4.1389703/

 

[EpicNPC]

Any units is true but not with the rare combination and popular demands as disclaimed.

Any = Any, not all except rare or popular combinations. You need to change "any" to something else since it's not true.

Please update the thread so that it's clear it's most characters, not any characters.

I think below your current disclaimer you can also add something like this, "Accounts with multiple high demand rare/limited characters are priced higher" or something like that.

 

[SetsunaEpic]

Any = Any, not all except rare or popular combinations. You need to change "any" to something else since it's not true.

Please update the thread so that it's clear it's most characters, not any characters.

I think below your current disclaimer you can also add something like this, "Accounts with multiple high demand rare/limited characters are priced higher" or something like that.

1 x 5* Moon Light Hero = $5+
1 x 5* Normal Hero = $2.5+
1 x 5* Limited Hero = $6+
1 x 4* Moon Light Hero = FREE

Multiple Moonlights and Limited are based on popularity and demands. Thus, the price can be different.
Rare Characters are ML Vildred, ML Sigret, ML Luluca, ML Violet, ML Iseria, ML Arch Demon & new ML are higher.
Name Change will take into consideration for price increases.

I have changed to what you asked. Base on this dispute, there should be new rules should be applied to catalog selective. All sellers on EpicNPC are currently using the word "Any".
If you still confuse about the guideline above, let me know. I had multiple catalogs. Price is not always the same from this catalog to another catalog.

 

[EpicNPC]

I have changed to what you asked. Base on this dispute, there should be new rules should be applied to catalog selective.

We do not need a new rule for this. This is already part of the "false advertising" rules.

thank you for changing it. Closing this dispute.