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Page Verification System added!

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EpicNPC

EpicNPC

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We have added a new verification feature to the Youtube forum and plan to add it to more forums next week.

Before someone can create a sale thread, the system will now require the seller to verify ownership of the account by placing a random security code on a certain page. The system will then check to make sure the code is there, if it isn't the seller won't be able to create a thread.

Once verified, the seller can create the thread as normal.

Once created, a "verified account" badge will be added to the thread so potential buyers can see we have already verified account ownership. The buyer can then click to see the Youtube link that was verified. The link is only visible to registered members if they click the "Request" button. It is not posted in the thread by default.

This is to prevent scammers from selling accounts they don't own as it seems many buyers are unaware of how to verify ownership.


This system will be added to Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Twitch next week and is flexible enough to be used for many other accounts. Any account that has a web based, public profile, we can use this new system with it. If you have any recommendations for games that you think might work with this, please post the game title here and I'll take a look to see if it'll work.
 
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How do I open a buy thread now? :D

Very good and much needed change.

[HIDE=99999]Maybe add the view and subscriber count to the verified tag, since people can simply create a new channel for verification, but advertise something else. Since those numbers are on the about page too, it shouldn't be hard to change the script to load them as well when checking for the security code.

The link is shown, but there will still be people who would see the verified tag and automatically trust the seller.[/HIDE]
 
How do I open a buy thread now? :D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...

Good point, we'll have to make an update for that.

We can add view and subscription counters as well.

Thanks for the suggestions.

- - - Updated - - -

Thinking more about the stat counter, this can become an issue. If we do stats for Youtube, we'll have to do it for FB, Twitter, etc, which we can do. The problem is that anytime one of these sites makes a major update, it can break the system causing us to update the script. If we have 10+ forums using this, it'll start to become a lot of work to make sure it's working properly for every site.

I think for now we won't include stats and just keep it simple. Maybe in the future though.
 
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The stats are on the same page where the verification code is. It can simply take a value from an element and display it here. If it fails (no element / page changed), it should just say that there is no data for view/subs.

[HIDE=99999]This is already becoming an issue: https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/1014466

He verified a (most likely) empty channel, then set everything to private.
It actually makes it easier for scammers to scam now, since they can say they are verified, while the user can't get any info from the channel link.

There should also be a rule that says that the stats on the about page have to be visible while the channel is for sale, OR make the script take stats as well.

What should I do in this case? Ban on sight?
I've moved the thread to jail, you decide what to do with it. :p

It seems that the verification part is no longer there once I've moved the thread. If you can't find the link, this was set as the "verified" channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Z855GaL9j-BY3gFmOh35g
[/HIDE]
 
For youtube, as long as they don't remove the stats from the About page, it's very simple. Its simple for most of the sites this would be used for, its only an issue if those sites update their layouts or move the stats somewhere else. It's just another thing to monitor, so I would prefer not to do it right now.

All old youtube threads now display a "ACCOUNT OWNERSHIP NOT CONFIRMED" message by default. Threads can't be created without confirming the Youtube account, so that message only displays for old threads.

As for users verifying an empty channel, I'm not sure I understand the risk. You can't sell a channel without selling the whole Youtube account so why would a seller verify an empty channel?
 
I've posted the wrong link in my last post, sorry. Here is the thread in qustion: https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/1020319

They verify an empty channel so that they can open a thread and bypass the new system. Then they advertise something different and even get the verified tag in their thread, making it easier to scam than it was before, since buyers now falsly believe that the ownership is actually verified.

The link to the channel is of no help, since everything can be set to private. Look at the thread. He advertises a 100k sub channel, but verified an empty one, to bypass the system and be able to open a thread.
 
That's just not allowed. If the channel verified had 0 stats, it's false adverting. The thread should be removed and the user given a warning. Second violation would be a perma ban.

So yes, stats can be added to combat this, but maybe there's another way. Let me think about it and we'll make an update next week to address this.
 
My suggestion is to make all new threads in the yt section require approval (put them in thread approval queue).
Then a mod would check the thread and just check if the channel that was verified matches the description of the sale. The current system would be enough in that case.

This check should only be done for threads made by new members where the risk is highest, while members who meet a certain requirement (upgraded, certain amount of posts, months since registration etc.) don't go through this secondary verification.

It would drop scam rates to the lowest possible and can also be applied to the rest of the high risk sections. Threads usually get approved within minutes and I've never seen them sit for more than 30 minutes maximum, so the delays wouldn't be a problem either.
 
Manual thread approval would be too slow. People don't like to wait a few minutes let alone a few hours which I'm sure would happen of we did something like that. I'm sure we'll be able to come up with an automated system that can provide better account verification.
 
OGEdge.com said:
I don't get the point of this, it's for youtube?
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Yes. 90% of sales in the youtube section were fake and people would sell channels that they don't own. And since buyers don't know how to properly confirm ownership, many scams were happening.

The new verirication system only allows you to open a thread if you actually own a channel.

EpicNPC said:
Manual thread approval would be too slow. People don't like to wait a few minutes let alone a few hours which I'm sure would happen of we did something like that. I'm sure we'll be able to come up with an automated system that can provide better account verification.
Click to expand...
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How about make the thread visible normally but put them for review at the same time? So people don't have to wait, while someone would still review the thread. :)[HIDE=99999]Maybe a bot that would automatically open a thread in private forum every 1h, with links to all the new threads in the yt (and some other) sections in the past hour. :p[/HIDE]

Also, I think some rules/warnings/notices need to be added to the verification page:
- You are not allowed to hide the sub/view stats during verification and for as long as having an active sale.
- When selling multiple channels in the same thread, the one with the highest value (view/sub count) needs to be verified. - This prevents people from verifying a 1k channel for example, then in addition to it, listing 5k, 10k and 100k channels in their thread.
 
I don't know if this guy found a way to bypass it or if it's a bug with the script:

njn.png


Basically, the URL leads to epicnpc.com/<channelID>

I've checked the channel ID, and it seems to actually exist and match the OP's description.
Since I'm not sure if it's a bug or abuse, I've deleted the thread and asked for manual verification.
https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/1021122
 
The Integrity said:
I don't know if this guy found a way to bypass it or if it's a bug with the script:

njn.png


Basically, the URL leads to epicnpc.com/<channelID>

I've checked the channel ID, and it seems to actually exist and match the OP's description.
Since I'm not sure if it's a bug or abuse, I've deleted the thread and asked for manual verification.
https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/1021122
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...

This has been fixed as well as a new option to allow members to post "Want to Buy Threads".

Stats will be added sometime in the future once we roll this out to other forums. We need to see if stats can be used on all sites and if not, then we'll have to come up with another solution.
 
Not sure if this is already being addressed but I was searching through the YouTube forum and saw that if somebody is selling an account but does not use the "Selling" filter in their thread then the system will not require them to verify ownership before posting.

Example: https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/1020833-Selling-youtube-channel-18k-subs

EDIT: I initiated the process of making a thread and hit the button to create a "Buy" thread and could choose an option to not include a prefix. I won't go as far as posting an actual thread just for test purposes but I imagine the above user bypassed the verification requirement as the system technically thinks it is a Buying thread.
 
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Yes, seems that they are able to change the prefix once they get to the thread open page.
The prefixes should be limited to "Buying" and "Services", while sale threads can only have "Selling".

Also, I've seen two sale threads today which looked like this:
bug.png


Again not sure if a bug with the script or if they bypassed it.

EDIT: Tried to reproduce. Failed. :D

When you skip verification once and go to the buy thread page, then you leave that page and click on post new thread again, it will again take you to the buy thread page (and not ask you if you want to skip again).

1. Click post new thread, asks for verification.
2. Click I want to buy.
3. Buy thread creation shows up.
4. Leave that page (close tab, click other link).
5. Click post new thread again.

It doesn't ask for verification, but takes you to buy thread creation instead.
The text at the top is also very misleading It should write something like "You are creating a buy thread, click here to create a sale thread instead".
 
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Thanks for letting me know. I was able to replicate and we'll have this fixed soon. We'll restrict it so the 'buying' prefix can't be changed.

- - - Updated - - -

Its been updated. The "buying" prefix can no longer be changed if the "I'm not selling" button is clicked.
 
It's still broken.

Despite the prefix being preset to "buying", the thread is created without any prefix.

Also, you can change the prefix normally if you edit the first post once the trade has been made.
 
Thanks, we'll get that fixed asap.

For the edit loophole, it's not possible to change this unless we change it so that no one can change a prefix after a thread is created. I'll have to talk to our dev to see if there's something else we can do.
 
EpicNPC said:
Thanks, we'll get that fixed asap.

For the edit loophole, it's not possible to change this unless we change it so that no one can change a prefix after a thread is created. I'll have to talk to our dev to see if there's something else we can do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...

All the work being done is much appreciated, thanks!
 
Thanks :)

The missing buy prefix has been fixed.

- - - Updated - - -

An update has been made so that prefix can't be changed if the "Not selling" button is clicked, this includes edits.

There is a minor issue that allows the prefix to be editable before the page fully loads, but this will be fixed in an update tomorrow.
 
Found out how to reproduce this: http://s6.postimg.org/ulqpzbjn5/bug.png
Open a buy thread, then change the prefix to selling by editing the post. This bug will then show up.
Though if editing the prefix is no longer possible, this shouldn't be a problem.

There's another issue though. There are some members who offer services like sub and view boosting. They need to open a sale thread but can't. Maybe add a third category 'services', or allow members to choose prefix between buying and services.
 
We'll setup a new forum for services.

- - - Updated - - -

A new Youtube Services forum has been added. The "buying" prefix can no longer be changed if "not selling" is selected and the delay on page load has been fixed also.
 
It's possible to change the prefix when opening a buy thread. The prefix select list is no longer greyed out.

Also, the verification tag only shows if the thread has the "Selling" prefix.
Putting any other prefix will cause the verification tag to disappear, even if the channel is verified.

I just gave an infraction to someone who bypassed verification, but it seems that he just edited his thread and removed the "Selling" prefix instead, causing the verification tag to disappear. :(

The verification should not be tied to the "Selling" prefix.
 
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It's possible to change the prefix when opening a buy thread. The prefix select list is no longer greyed out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...

Im unable to replicate this. I can't change the "buying" prefix when I create a buy thread.

Also, the verification tag only shows if the thread has the "Selling" prefix.
Putting any other prefix will cause the verification tag to disappear, even if the channel is verified.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...
The verification tag only appears if the thread is marked as "selling".

When someone is creating a thread, they are either Selling or Buying an account. I supposed someone might want to select the 'trade' prefix. For now we'll keep it as is. We are planning an update to the filter system later this year, so I don't want to make a change now that will have to get changed again. Im not sure why someone would want to remove the "selling" prefix anyway if they go through the account verification process.
 
EpicNPC said:
Im unable to replicate this. I can't change the "buying" prefix when I create a buy thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...
I can normally change the prefix just like in any other section: https://youtu.be/Q26NVAOtQBo


EpicNPC said:
The verification tag only appears if the thread is marked as "selling".

When someone is creating a thread, they are either Selling or Buying an account. I supposed someone might want to select the 'trade' prefix. For now we'll keep it as is. We are planning an update to the filter system later this year, so I don't want to make a change now that will have to get changed again. Im not sure why someone would want to remove the "selling" prefix anyway if they go through the account verification process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...

There are other prefixes which members can use 'Selling OO', 'Trading', 'Trading OO', (no prefix). Verification tag should appear on all those if a channel is verified.

Though the verification shouldn't be tied to a tag at all in the first place.
 
FF 49

It worked at first (was greyed out), the I noticed yesterday that I could change it again.
 
It fully loads.

I just tried on phone (opera mobile) and I'm also able to change it. It doesn't look like a browser issue.
 
When you click on the button to open a buy thread instead, it will remember your choice and every next time you click on the new thread button, it will automatically take you to the buy thread page, skipping verification. It should not work like this. It should show the verification page every single time.

The text at the top is still very misleading.
 
The Integrity said:
When you click on the button to open a buy thread instead, it will remember your choice and every next time you click on the new thread button, it will automatically take you to the buy thread page, skipping verification. It should not work like this. It should show the verification page every single time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...

I believe this was a security feature so someone could skip past the first step via URL. I'll check with the dev to make sure and we'll see if we can change it to your idea instead.

The Integrity said:
The text at the top is still very misleading.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...

Im not sure what's misleading about that. That message is give when someone clicks the "I'm not selling. I want to buy" link.

- - - Updated - - -

The system has been updated. Instead of preventing the user from changing the prefix we changed it so that it checks on 'submit' instead. The user will now get an error saying they're not allowed change it.
 
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WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.
Make the verified channel link searchable using the forum search.

Members are reusing the same channel for verification after being banned, and there's no way to find out if it was used before, unless I take notes or remeber seeing it somewhere.

Also, when will this be implemented for instagram, facebook? What happened to "next week"?:D
 
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I was holding off implementing this in other forums until the addon was perfect. We'll have to make one more update to address banned scammers reusing the same Youtube channels, then we'll start rolling this out into other forums.
 
The message "This account was previously listed for sale by another member" should also have a link to that other thread. Currently I have no way to find out where the channel was used before.
 
This was done purposely. This message is to indicate to buyers that the account has been sold at least one other time on our site. It also means the previous seller is in good standings, if they were banned, then the warning message would display instead.

The old thread URL is not posted to keep previous sellers anonymous. You can always ask the seller who they got the account from when you see that message.
 
It should be visible to mods for checking/investigation purposes.

Also, in this particular case, the user who previously posted the channel was the same user. It was basically a duplicate thread. It shouldn't show this message if it's from the same user.
 
That's why you should make channel links searchable or the warning to display the URL to mods only. :)
 
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