Is there a way to protect yourself against a buyer who uses chargeback on CC?

[chatontank]

Hello everyone,

I just got scammed of 300USD by someone who sent me the money with Paypal Friends and Family then issued a chargeback to his bank a couple of hours after. His bank contacted Paypal and Paypal automatically sided with the bank and refunded the 300USD to the buyer.

I thought about this and I actually don't see a way to protect myself against that. I called Paypal and the only recourse is to file in small claim courts. But since it's virtual goods, this will not help (you are not legally allowed to sell accounts since it doesn't legally belong to you so a claim would be denied). Also I asked them if a payment made with goods and services would have helped and they told me there is no seller protection for virtual goods anyway so that's a dead end too.

Trade Guardian would not have worked either because the money is sent directly to the seller so it doesn't protect against a refund.

How do the pros protect themselves against that?

Please help.

Thanks,
Lorenzo.

 

[EpicNPC]

Most payment methods do not provide protection against chargebacks and disputes, so there will always be a certain level of risk when accepting payments. Bitcoin is the best and completely protects against chargebacks. Skill also is much better than Paypal in terms of protection and fairly popular. There's a few others, but these payment methods are less popular so you might have a harder time finding a buyer that uses them.

 

[chatontank]

Yes thank you that's my analysis aswell. Skill, bitcoins and iTunes card would provide the highest form of protection but nobody uses that almost. It's a shame Paypal is so popular, their service is really average and their fees are kinda high.

Oh well, thanks anyway!

 

[Nau]

Banned - scammer - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/account-reclaimed-by-original-owner.1661911/

You can avoid paypal chargebacks by paying through friends and family, which disables CC. If they deny it on through their credit card company, you can try to file an issue on their customer services site.

 

[Nau]

Banned - scammer - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/account-reclaimed-by-original-owner.1661911/

Most payment methods do not provide protection against chargebacks and disputes, so there will always be a certain level of risk when accepting payments. Bitcoin is the best and completely protects against chargebacks. Skill also is much better than Paypal in terms of protection and fairly popular. There's a few others, but these payment methods are less popular so you might have a harder time finding a buyer that uses them.

But as he said, it's very risky still so it's better to switch to alternatives such as bitcoin if you're dealing with traders on this site that are relatively new and have no positive feedbacks.

 

[chatontank]

But as he said, it's very risky still so it's better to switch to alternatives such as bitcoin if you're dealing with traders on this site that are relatively new and have no positive feedbacks.

Yes but most people will just refuse to use bitcoin if they are not already familiar with it. So you lose customers

 

[Nau]

Banned - scammer - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/account-reclaimed-by-original-owner.1661911/

Better to lose customers than to lose money though.

 

[Nau]

Banned - scammer - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/account-reclaimed-by-original-owner.1661911/

Not getting scammed should be your highest priority.

 

[chatontank]

Not getting scammed should be your highest priority.

Yes, the problem is that almost everybody uses paypal (at least in the Epic 7 sub). It's like 99% of customers... But yeah in the future I will try something else. I'm really curious how big accounts are sold though because when it is over 1000 USD I'm sure they dont take any chances.

 

[iAccomplish]

Yes, the problem is that almost everybody uses paypal (at least in the Epic 7 sub). It's like 99% of customers... But yeah in the future I will try something else. I'm really curious how big accounts are sold though because when it is over 1000 USD I'm sure they dont take any chances.

I've sold a few accounts close to $1,000 via Paypal via goods and services and friends and family method.

I have not had a single recall from any buyer. I hope Im not jinxing anything haha, but I think luck is also a very big factor here. I would consider myself lucky that my buyers are genuine and haven't given me a hard time.

Once again, there's no 100% solution to prevent any chargeback with Paypal and Paypal is one of the most popular payment methods. If you were to take only Bitcoin, then you lose a lot of potential sales, but then you mitigate all risks involved. I think opportunity cost is very strong in this sense.

 

[chatontank]

I think opportunity cost is very strong in this sense.

Yes that's my opinion too. If you sell 25% above market price (like I usually do) you just need 4 sales to work and then you can lose the next one and still be profitable if you bought under market price. But if you only use bitcoin and instead of selling 10 accounts per month you only sell 1 then you lose more money doing the "safest" method.

I was just hoping there was some big secret method that I didn't know that would be safe. Guess not lol.

Thanks for your help boys!

 

[iAccomplish]

I was just hoping there was some big secret method that I didn't know that would be safe. Guess not lol.

Thanks for your help boys!

Yeah unfortunately there's no secret

Best of luck with your sales though, appreciate you bringing this matter to hand. Hopefully we've explored it in enough detail

 

[chatontank]

Oh wait actually I just thought of something...

What if we accept payments through Paypal but it has to be done from the balance instead of directly from their linked credit card? This way if they charge back on their credit card it's going to be taken from their own balance and not from the seller! I think that would work actually.

The only problem is that the only way to prove it is a screenshot from the seller and they can always falsify that. It might be a good deterrent though. I think I'll try that.

 

[Adoxia]

Oh wait actually I just thought of something...

What if we accept payments through Paypal but it has to be done from the balance instead of directly from their linked credit card? This way if they charge back on their credit card it's going to be taken from their own balance and not from the seller! I think that would work actually.

The only problem is that the only way to prove it is a screenshot from the seller and they can always falsify that. It might be a good deterrent though. I think I'll try that.

If they use it from their balance they can’t do a chargeback through their CC company against you. However, you will still always risk losing a paypal dispute simply because they do not actually cover digital goods. There unfortunately is no big secret on avoiding being scammed other then learning red flags and knowing that offers that are “too good to be true” are scams. Everyone here came here to make money so no one is going to give you a deal of a lifetime.

 

[The Integrity]

Out of my last 100 incoming transactions on paypal, which were all sent as goods&services, I had one dispute and one credit card chargeback. Won both

The secret? Good risk analysis.
There's no single magic trick that prevents it. But there are a dozen small tricks that you can use, which combined can give you a 1-2% dispute rate.


Most times, those disputes aren't actually made by the people that you traded with. They either used a stolen paypal account or credit card, or they tricked someone else into making the payment to you.
You need to make sure that the person that's buying from you is using their own paypal account, or if they aren't, that whoever is sending you money is aware what they are buying and for whom.

Having a website helps. Using purchase pages is much better than just giving out your email or sending invoices.
Having rep also helps. Scammers tend to avoid very high repped users since they are less likely to fall for a scam.

If disputes on paypal didn't exist, I'd be at a loss, since I recover shitloads of money from scammers who recalled the account that they've sold to me.

 

[chatontank]

So you would actually suggest to use paypal goods and services instead of friend and family ? I thought paypal didn't protect the seller if you sell virtual goods? I would be really grateful if you could explain how you won your dispute and charge back. Especially the charge back, did you contact their bank or just paypal?

 

[Nau]

Banned - scammer - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/account-reclaimed-by-original-owner.1661911/

You can win your disputes by providing valuable evidence such as screenshots of conversations, links to what you sold, and overall try to convince them by defending yourself and what the opposing party says.

 

[chatontank]

You can win your disputes by providing valuable evidence such as screenshots of conversations, links to what you sold, and overall try to convince them by defending yourself and what the opposing party says.

Yes but that doesn't work in the case of credit card charge back because they don't even contact you. The bank of the buyer automatically sides with him and then paypal has an obligation to do what the bank says (I had a rep of paypal on the phone who told me they always do that). At no point in time can you present your case because the bank the issued the refund didnt contact you and you don't know the name of the bank (because you got paid by paypal). How do you present your proof?

 

[Nau]

Banned - scammer - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/account-reclaimed-by-original-owner.1661911/

I was talking about PayPal chargebacks, not credit card ones.

 

[chatontank]

I was talking about PayPal chargebacks, not credit card ones.

Okay but about paypal charge back the rep from Paypal I had on the phone told me that virtual goods are not covered by Paypal seller protection. Did it still work for you?

 

[XxxMagicxxX102]

Banned - scammer - universeflash

use similar services to zelle or bitcoin so it makes it harder for unsavory fellows to chargeback you.
also follow similar tips like many of the others above said.
research who the person whose buying from you is.
if they say anything suspicious back off.
if at any moment something feels wrong back off.
most of protection is common sense.
try to build some sort of social rapport or link with the buyer.
both you and the buyer should ask simple questions like "why are you buying from me?" "what do you intend to use the account for" "why are you selling" "etc"
don't do trades immediately if you aren't sure its safe.(in general i recommend taking a week or so to do a trade with someone if its of high value to you)
take some time ... delay delay delay..
again most protection is common sense.