GW2 Account Recalled A Month After Buying From OO

[ryan40211]

Dispute Against

Kirriel

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

Information
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Purchase Date: February 27th, 2022
Date the problem began: March 30th, 2022
Method of Contact Used (chat program): EpicNPC Chat and Discord
Instant Messenger username of the person you're accusing: Kirriel#9056 (Discord) , https://www.epicnpc.com/members/kirriel.1457913/ (Kirriel - EpicNPC Account)
Your Instant Messenger ID:

Other information:

Looks like I'm here again, seems like pretty much all I do now is get scammed. Well I bought a gw2 account and he called it back. E-mail changed on account (i don't receive e-mails for the lost password). API key to view account details via gw2efficiency was removed and the password was changed.

Purchased high end GW2 account through TG. Transaction went smooth, but he called it back a month later roughly. Tried contacting him in both Discord and EpicNPC chat but no response at all. Last seen online yesterday in EpicNPC which was around the time I'm sure the account got transitioned back after he called it in.


DISPUTE Information
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Link of transaction thread (URL, Epicnpc thread): https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/93k...d-deluxe-expansion-26-6k-ap-650-nego.2159929/
Approximate value of property: $650 USD
Was Trade Guardian used? Yes
If yes, what is the Trade Guardian ID? #54653

What is the dispute about? Guild wars 2 account I purchased for $650 was called it back a month after purchasing it.

Other details / notes: He claimed Original Owner, even gave me personal photo holding passport and all information for account.


Proof
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You MUST provide proof or your claim will not be valid!

Chat Log Screenshots (make sure username is visible, not display username):

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Payment Screenshots (make sure the accused email is visible):

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Other proof: The only conversation between us outside of EpicNPC is within Discord and the pictures I provided above. The rest would be in the Trade Guardian and EpicNPC private chat which you have access to. If you need other images of anything let me know.


Account Recalls
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Most account recalls have little proof. To get more evidence, please open a support ticket to attempt to recover the account BEFORE opening a dispute thread.

Did the seller say he's the original owner? (provide proof) Yes, the thread shows him stating he is Original Owner
What account information did the seller provide you at the time of sale? (ID, SQA, etc) - email, password, account information, image of himself holding passport, etc
How long did you have the account before it was recalled? From February 27th, to March 29th... Pretty much almost a month's time.
If you have a support ticket about this recall, please post screenshots of it. - Nah I just want a refund and not deal with it. I highly doubt that'll happen but it's worth trying and EVEN if I were to get the account back, it's essentially tainted and I'll be with the fear of knowing it'll just get recalled again over and over until it's most likely permabanned since they have a strong policy on account sharing/selling. It's no longer the promised product and has been recalled and he's not even responding so it's most likely that I won't even receive a refund let alone get my account back.
(you can use the HIDE tag so the images are not publicly available to everyone)


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https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/90442-Dispute-FORUM-RULES

 

[EpicNPC CM]

@Kirriel

 

[ryan40211]

I originally said I only want a refund, but since he's the original owner I'd be willing to let him get the account back and provide me the account and a refund as a last option. I think that would be fair. I honestly could careless about the money, I make more than enough IRL, this is more about principle and scamming is not cool.

 

[ryan40211]

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

He reached out to me in private messages, he said he is sending a ticket to support and work on getting it back. I told him to update this dispute with information to keep everybody in the loop.

--

Just throwing this out there too:

I'm almost positive this guy called it back, so if I do get the account back from him I'm almost 100% certain that it will be in a state of being rolled back to just before I took control of it. Which would be no coincidence.

--

The API from gw2efficiency reflected what looked to be a rollback to the state of when I had received the account from him when I visited it a few days back prior to getting my API access cut off before realizing my access was cut off.

I thought it was a bug with gw2efficiency's API handling at the time which does happen sometimes, albeit not like THAT but bugs do happen on the site so I turned a blind eye to it, but I'm almost certain he called it back and got the progress I did in that month reversed so it was showing that before he was able to cut off the API access to me. Unfortunate that I didn't take that as a signal but I really thought it was a bug with the site so I just didn't think anything of it. Again I know this can't be used as evidence since I have no proof but we'll see IF I get the account back from him.

--

If it is rolled back:

Let's also take into consideration I spent roughly $400 in gems on the account within that month ( i have receipts to prove that if you want them ), and did raid progress, fractal cm's, legendary questlines, and bought character name changes, identity changes for existing characters, added new characters, bought new mounts for the account. That is most likely rolled back to just before I received the account which means if I do get the account back in a rolled back state I'll have lost already a lot of money and time, and also on top of that still have an account where the guy could just call it back whenever he wants in the future - which is the scariest part for me.

With that said, I'm almost positive it will be identical to what it was around February 27th before handing over account to me. Which would match to when he lost access and his alibi for it being "hacked" when calling it in.

Thankfully I have a picture from the Middleman himself in image showing the state of the account prior to handing it over to me to verify it properly.

--

With that said, if it isn't rolled back then that's great, but I'm almost guaranteeing that this account will be in a rolled back state of prior to it being "hacked" which will have deleted my progress.

That would fit in line with Kirriel calling it back because the only defense he'd have is that somebody ELSE has the account information, or at least enough information to make a call back like an original owner could. That person wouldn't have knowledge of the account state and wouldn't likely roll it back to just before giving me the account either, so if it is rolled back to just before then, we'll know exactly if he did it or not.

--

Also, I understand I will be most likely implicated by Kirriel in trying to scam him (which he questioned me in Discord), but ask yourself this, I've changed my stance from just a refund to getting the account back. If I'm only asking for the account back, why would I go through all of this trouble for no reason to get an account back that I already owned to begin with. My payment to him has already been made and it cleared. I have not charged anything back or disputed a transaction, my side of the deal has been completed and has had no issues. So I wouldn't go through all of this trouble to secure an account I'd already own, for no reason. It just doesn't make any sense at all.

Also, I didn't sell this account to somebody else, and if I did, if I had the information like Kirriel says to get it back myself, I would just do that and not go through all of this trouble. I would just call back the account myself and scam the person I sold it to, instead of getting other people involved. So it again makes no sense on that front either.

No matter how you look at this, it's very clear the account was called back by SOMEBODY with the necessary information and I just want to get the account back -- that leaves one of 2 scenarios:

1. He called it back and got progress reversed or just called it back (usually they offer reversal or force reversals when it's been deemed a hacked account)
2. He sold it someone else prior to selling it to me, gave the verification information to them and those people are calling it back.

If the account is rolled back to a state of February 27th, then we'll know #2 isn't the case, because he looks to have owned the account for some time, and considering the character names have been like that for years and match with his EpicNPC name and his discord name as well it's highly doubtful that somebody else owns this account.

I simply think this guy sold an account because in his mental he was done with the game, in which he was the original owner and was his personal account. We know he has the information to easily get it back, he waited for some time to call it back, then ended up calling it back and is trying to save face and say he's going to call support to get it back when he probably already has it. That's my observation on this. It's a lot of assumptions, and like I said we'll see after all of this dust settles but that's what I'm thinking.

 

[ryan40211]

Image for log reference:

 

[ryan40211]

If it comes down to it as well, I can send a support ticket myself, but I'd much rather him send one since he has the clear information on the account and claims original owner. Also, it wouldn't look good if multiple people send support tickets regarding this account. That would most likely result in suspicions and they may just ban it altogether. I'll await what Kirriel says once he's contacted support and hopefully gotten the information (if he is indeed telling the truth). To be honest with you, they may ban it since there's been multiple transitions in location between mine and his and whoever recalled the account now, so they may just ban it entirely, which would really suck since I'd lose out on my money and an account.

 

[ryan40211]

Kirriel got the account back for me, it was reversed back to the state it was in at February 27th. I'll set it for resolved for now.

 

[Angel]

Closing as resolved

 

[Angel]

Reopened

 

[ryan40211]

Thanks @Angel

 

[ryan40211]

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

For this case in reopening I'll update with details:

Kirriel was able to get the account back for me, it had been reverted to the exact moment in which I had received the account after purchasing it from him originally, which automatically tells me it was called back by either him or somebody else who has the account information. Within the month that I had it I had:

1. Bought $400 in gems
2. 110-120 Legendary insights (raid)
3. Fractals and CM's daily
4. HOPE quest line up to line #3 completed
5. Half of Astralaria quest line 1 completed

This was in the 1 month I had the account, I bought gems early on when first receiving the account to change names and char identities and also add some new chars and grab some skins from the gem stores. It was called back at the end of the month. So I contacted Kirriel.

So I originally made this ticket for that, to get the account back from an obvious call back. This progress was all lost when Kirriel (or somebody else who has the information) called it back and requested the account back to get the password changed, which means it was reverted intentionally.

That's fine, it's super annoying and I lost even more money and a huge amount of progress that I did but I dealt with it and accepted that Kirriel was able to get the account back for me, so we decided to call it there and I closed the ticket.

A day or 2 later, I don't even think it was 2 days later, the account is perma banned. I contacted Kirriel again to try and get it unblocked because he has a friend in support who could help him get information quickly about the account (he stated that the support itself had no actual power over the deciding result of the accounts ban or unban). He told me that it looks like it's permabanned.

I told him if he were able to get the account back, then to keep the account and just refund me. He said he would do that, but now he's ghosted me in Discord... He could very well be busy but it's been days into weeks that he's been trying to get this account back and even he said it's looking like it's permabanned.

I didn't send in a ticket regarding this account, I let him handle all tickets, because I didn't want multiple tickets going into support to raise suspicion, I was trying to avoid this exact scenario.

This leads me to 2 scenarios:

1. He called it back, tried to save face and give it back to me, then called it back again when retrieving the account for me to solve the dispute -- This seems highly unlikely, if he wanted the account he would just ghost and not come back.. He has an account with 2 rating, it's not a big loss for him to just vanish, use a VPN and another machine and connect with a new EpicNPC account. This would also assume he's original owner, but I don't know how this would prompt SO much suspicion considering it's one guy sending in tickets. I know from history of seeing dispute tickets on here and just common logic tells me if there's multiple people doing tickets then it's safe to assume it's no recoverable by staff.

2. He's either original owner or not, but sold the account to someone else prior to me and gave the same identifying information (he sent me an ID with picture of himself for ID verification scenarios), or at the very least someone else HAS the information to claim this account enough to be able to call it in, and did so - which prompted Kirriel to call it back for me. I would imagine if that were the case then possibly the 1st guy that called it back submitted tickets alongside Kirriel, which prompted suspicion and since it's damaged and unable to be verified by the actual original owner and no longer able to differentiate the people who may have the information, then it would be banned.

Either way, he claimed original owner on his post, so I'd like to request a refund.. Or at the very least a percentage of the refund... I've lost not only the account, obviously, but the money and the money I spent on gems on top of it for the account. I now have an account that's banned and a month of wasted time.

I'd be willing to take a refund as low as $450 to settle this, because I know if Kirriel is indeed innocent in this, then it's unfair that he would have to pay all of the refund and not receive his account back, he'd be left with nothing as well.

 

[ryan40211]

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

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I did realize in discord I did offer to settle for half of the original amount as a refund, which I'd be willing to do. I'll be a man of my word on this and accept half as a dispute settlement. This would be more fair for him if he is indeed innocent, since he lost his account as well.

 

[EpicNPC CM]

@Kirriel

 

[Angel]

@Kirriel

 

[Angel]

@Kirriel 24 hrs

 

[ryan40211]

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

He said he wouldn't be able to respond via Discord, that pretty much means he can't refund me or help with the dispute.

 

[ryan40211]

I knew it would be the case, he has nothing to lose, 2 reviews. Can just vpn and make a new account later on. There's no risk for these people.

It's an unfortunate lifecycle of this environment.

I will be submitting a charge back from my bank once he's banned and it's confirmed 100% that he won't do refund.

 

[Angel]

@Kirriel 24 hrs

 

[EpicNPC CM]

banned

Kirriel
[email protected]