Seller has sold me an account with VAC ban

[sbiomat]

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

Information
######################
Purchase Date: 10-05-2020
Date the problem begin: 10-05-2020
Method of Contact Used (chat progam): Discord
Instant Messenger username of the person you're accusing: [not the display name, must be real username]
Your Instant Messenger ID: zkMushroom#2740


Other information:


DISPUTE Information
######################
Link of transaction thread (URL, Epicnpc thread): https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/pvp...top-elo-survival-trials-17x-flawless.1603499/
Approximate value of property: $280 USD
Was Trade Guardian used? Yes
If yes, what is the Trade Guardian ID? #21817

What is the dispute about?
It is about the account having a VAC ban and the use of cheat programs on the contrary to the seller's claim
Other details / notes:


Proof
######################
You MUST provide proof or your claim will not be valid!

Spoiler: profile page

https://media.[Social group links not allowed].net/attachments/641319314598789120/709236130091892766/unknown.png?width=1811&height=912

Chat Log Screenshots (make sure username is visible, not display username):

Spoiler: chat log

Payment Screenshots (make sure the accused email is visible): Trade guardian transaction paid with BTC
Other proof:
Did the seller mention it before? No

It is totally my mistake that I did not check if the account had VAC Ban while I took ownership and I apologize for any inconvenience this might cause.
I choose to return the account back in full and request a refund back.

Quoting the seller's post from sale thread

Selling my personal Destiny account

This account has not use any kind of cheat/hack/bot. No recall has been used in this account. After buying you will receive full information in this account.

My friend given me this account, when I got it that K/d Crucible is already 0.8. That account haven't touched Trials so when I'm begin to play trials it has a good k/d. As I mention above: No cheat/hack/bot has been used in this account

 

[SaltnVinegar]

Was it disclosed at anytime the account has a VAC ban?

@hoang1706 @sbiomat

 

[SaltnVinegar]

If not, please kindly refund the user, @hoang1706

 

[sbiomat]

No, it was never mentioned. Thanks for the quick response.

 

[SaltnVinegar]

Please kindly refund the user, @hoang1706. This comes under our complete disclosure rule, and even a little into the false advertisement rule.

Keep us updated please.

Only staff can view this content.

 

[hoang1706]

Banned - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/seller-has-sold-me-an-account-with-vac-ban.1614042/page-2

Let me make this clear.

First, I'm Selling Destiny 2 Account. Which doesn't have to do anything with VAC Ban. The user received the right item, the right account in the forum I posted. So the dispute is not related to the Item I had selled ( Destiny 2).

 

[hoang1706]

Banned - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/seller-has-sold-me-an-account-with-vac-ban.1614042/page-2

VAC Ban is not related to Destiny since it's not using Valve Anti Cheat

 

[sbiomat]

That doesn't make any sense. I paid for a 'Steam account' that has the advertised Destiny 2 Bungie account.

 

[hoang1706]

Banned - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/seller-has-sold-me-an-account-with-vac-ban.1614042/page-2

In the tittle and the topic I'd written, It says : PVP ACCOUNT/ SellIng my DESTINY Account. I wrote and sold the right Item. Everything beside Destiny 2 he could have ask before the transaction. But he doesn't. For me, having VAC doesn't effect in anyways in Destiny. So I had not mentioned, not hiding it.
Reply me as soon as possible. Peace

 

[SaltnVinegar]

And what if he, in the future, decides to play the game which is VAC banned (without knowing it was VAC banned)? And later finds out the steam account he has invested into, both man hours and dollars, had a VAC ban for the game he intended to play all along.

Its a very short sighted response from you, hoang1706. The above scenario, and many like it, would be immensely unfair. This is why we have a rule that everything needs to be explained before sale. That includes bans to any games.

You have 24 hours to refund him. Any VAC bans should of been made abundantly clear before sale, no matter what the game in question is.

 

[hoang1706]

Banned - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/seller-has-sold-me-an-account-with-vac-ban.1614042/page-2

when I make a withdraw from epic to paypal, It have a 24h delay. He didn't check when received the account. The money got back last night and I have used for life stuffs how can I payback? I means he is too slow with the problem and now how can I pay when the transaction was over the pending time. I had thought that vac ban doesn't have anything to do with destiny 2 so I didn't mention it. I will take note for later. The money is withdraw-ed and used so there isn't anyway to refund it.

 

[SaltnVinegar]

Only staff can view this content.

 

[sbiomat]

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

I opened the dispute and informed you that I wish to be refunded within roughly 19 hours since delivery confirmation. And I am 100% sure that PayPal does not process withdrawals on Sunday and it would also take a couple more days for the money to hit your bank.
I bet you wouldn't post a screenshot of the time you received the money from Epicnpc trade guardian to your PayPal.
VAC ban does not have anything to do with Destiny 2, but it does with the credibility of the Steam account.

I would take no less than 120$ as compensation or you can have the account back in full.

Only staff can view this content.

 

[EpicNPC]

If sbiomat wishes to return the account for a refund, it can be done minus a return fee (30%) of the payment.

1) During the sale, you must have been given the Steam URL and the Vac ban displays publicly right on the profile, so the buyer should have noticed it easily.
2) Even though the vac ban has no affect on the D2 account, the seller should have at least mentioned it.
3) Since this vac ban does not affect the D2 account, I don't see a real problem. Use your regular Steam account for any other games you might play and keep this one for D2 only.

Normally I use 20% as a return fee, but this Vac ban has no affect and the buyer should have easily seen the vac ban during the purchase, so it's 30% instead.

hoang1706 and sbiomat can workout how the partial refund can be sent or sbiomat can just keep the account if he thinks 30% is too much.

 

[sbiomat]

You're right the VAC ban does not have an effect on the D2 account but it is highly likely that hacks were used on D2 as well by looking at the difference in performance in the competitive mode that came out recently vs the previous PVP modes. I'll never know if the account would receive a ban for D2 as well.

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[EpicNPC]

You make a good point as those are good stats. hoang1706 did you use any hacks to cheat on this account? This information is required to be disclosed to the buyer before payment.

 

[Neutrality]

Although I'm not involved, I've played a lot of destiny 2.

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So either he is not the owner of the account or he used cheats

 

[hoang1706]

Banned - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/seller-has-sold-me-an-account-with-vac-ban.1614042/page-2

First thing, I did not use any kind of cheat in DESTINY account.
You notice that there are abnormal stats in the account which I can explain.
The origin this account from is from my best friend of mine. He sold this account to me. And my friend is not very good at pvp. So he played comp on that account. Trials is not released in that time. And when he sold that account to me, Trials was already out. I started grinding that account to Flawless to sell. 82% Sniper headshot is high but normal at high tier pvp. Anything you don't understand just tell it out and I will explain to you

 

[sbiomat]

I'm not accusing you, I'm saying it is highly likely D2 was cheated on as well.
You've written that you are selling your personal destiny account in your sale thread when in fact it is not.

1) During the sale, you must have been given the Steam URL and the Vac ban displays publicly right on the profile, so the buyer should have noticed it easily.

I only had a Braytech link and some screenshots of inventory items before the sale. No URL was provided and I did not ask for it. Not everyday you meet someone that doesn't mention a VAC ban.

Spoiler: id + password was provided

I had to pay 106% for obtaining BTC and lose 5$ on withdrawal from exchanger + a 1.5% fee for the trade guardian system up front. Don't you think its a little unfair for the buyers to go through the payments and fees upfront to be able to verify the VAC standing on the Steam account?
Whether I confirmed the trade or not before this dispute, you realize I paid upfront for an account with a VAC ban without it being disclosed on the thread for every potential buyer out there to see?

I don't think its fair to give this seller the impression that it is my mistake and let him get away disrespecting every other buyer using your site, potentially wasting their time and money in fees and refund delays.

Spoiler: recent chat

 

[EpicNPC]

The original decision will remain as there is no evidence of cheating.

If sbiomat wishes to return the account for a refund, it can be done minus a return fee (30%) of the payment.

 

[sbiomat]

I've let the seller know that I'll go for the return since now he says he needs a month to provide a compensation he offered me first.

Spoiler: seller's initial offer

and idk what he's on, he thinks I return the account + pay 30% for nothing

It's you who's calling your mistake at the first time. You can roll up to check. And you understand wrong about the 30% refund. It means you give back my account and you have to pay 30%. It does not say i'm going to pay you

Spoiler: chat log

 

[EpicNPC]

To clarify.

Buyer returns the account to the seller
Seller issues a refund, minus 30%.

If payment was $300, then refund should be $200.

This is like a return fee you pay at some stores when you return an item. The buyer does not receive a full refund.

 

[sbiomat]

Thank you for the clarification. Hope the seller gets this.
I know this dispute is taking a while, I'll update once I get a response back from the seller if he chooses to provide a compensation to work this out or take the account back.

 

[hoang1706]

Banned - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/seller-has-sold-me-an-account-with-vac-ban.1614042/page-2

I think refund has to be agreed on both side. Because this is mistake from 2. Not to mention the 1-day after transaction delay when buyer started complaining about VAC problem. If that really is a problem why buyer didn't make contact sooner since ending transaction for at least 1-2hours?That is unfair If you only let buyer decide to refund. So seller doesn't have any privileges or any protection. When I 've sure that that account not even used any kind of hack&cheat and that VAC ban is 1k days ago?

 

[sbiomat]

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

Its been over a week and seller keeps ignoring me on Discord.

 

[EpicNPC]

I think refund has to be agreed on both side. Because this is mistake from 2. Not to mention the 1-day after transaction delay when buyer started complaining about VAC problem. If that really is a problem why buyer didn't make contact sooner since ending transaction for at least 1-2hours?That is unfair If you only let buyer decide to refund. So seller doesn't have any privileges or any protection. When I 've sure that that account not even used any kind of hack&cheat and that VAC ban is 1k days ago?

The partial refund IS the compromise. It's fair for both parties. What is your compromise hoang1706? No refund at all? That's not a compromise.

@hoang1706 state your compromise or issue the 70% refund.

If there's no reply in 48 hrs we will issue a ban.

 

[EpicNPC]

@hoang1706 ban in 24 hrs if there's no reply or this is not resolved.

 

[EpicNPC CM]

Banned

hoang1706
[email protected]
[email protected]