Reputation Threads Discontinued

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EpicNPC

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EpicNPC

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Starting today we will be using the iTrader reputation system exclusively. This means no more reputation threads.

For those of you who have reputation threads, the forum will remain as read only, so people will still be able to view your thread if you happen to have a lot of reputations built up. However posts can no longer be added.

We are making this change from the following reasons.

1) Reputation threads are being abused regularly by scammers who register multiple accounts and give themselves rep just to scam other members.

2) There's no need for two rep systems. This only confuses members, as it did me when I first took over the forums, as to which system is the real reputation system.

3) Itrader is a well built, versatile system that does everything we need it to do. Reputation threads are just an outdated methods of leaving reputation.

Let me know if you have any concerns about this.

Update: iTrader has been updated to the latest version.
 
For those of you who have reputation threads, the forum will remain as read only, so people will still be able to view your thread if you happen to have a lot of reputations built up. However posts can no longer be added.

Don't get your panties rolled up in a bunch, it'll be okay Dark :P

Anyways, if people were to merge their rep threads with the Itrader stuff, a lot of the rep threads have banned users that have posted positive rep, thus making the rep thread somewhat unreliable.
 
Don't get your panties rolled up in a bunch, it'll be okay Dark :P

Anyways, if people were to merge their rep threads with the Itrader stuff, a lot of the rep threads have banned users that have posted positive rep, thus making the rep thread somewhat unreliable.
Basicallyif I don't deal with TWV every single time, I don't get any rep to prove that I have done business.

Dumb.
 
Basicallyif I don't deal with TWV every single time, I don't get any rep to prove that I have done business.

Dumb.

If you've ever wondered why some people bump other threads to increase post count it's for the following reason: give other users the impression that the account has unique activity and is then used to post reputation on the same person's alias account. There have been 5+ scam threads opened in which the user "thought" the other was very reputable because of a rep thread that dated two days ago and had five or more posts already, all from similar users.

If you look at my own reputation thread, you'll see the product of a pretty immature child who decided to take it out on me when I had posted information relevant to his ban as a scammer on a sale thread of his.

Moving forward, this new process will encourage users to get TWV to use the reputation system, making the boards somewhat safer, and those who are TWV may continue to do business with the sense that they have "priority" arrangements in a transaction due to the verification of their identity, etc. We all know the number of times rep threads have been abused and those who wish they were moderated; heck, even I want to remove the post from the idiot on my thread, but I know that moderating one means moderating thousands. The only "true" reputation can come from someone else who is considered formally reputable and truthfully represented. I wouldn't count any of the 2 or more scammers on my rep thread to actually count as "reputation" since they mistreated how the transaction should have occurred and violated terms several months afterwards.
 
If you've ever wondered why some people bump other threads to increase post count it's for the following reason: give other users the impression that the account has unique activity and is then used to post reputation on the same person's alias account. There have been 5+ scam threads opened in which the user "thought" the other was very reputable because of a rep thread that dated two days ago and had five or more posts already, all from similar users.

If you look at my own reputation thread, you'll see the product of a pretty immature child who decided to take it out on me when I had posted information relevant to his ban as a scammer on a sale thread of his.

Moving forward, this new process will encourage users to get TWV to use the reputation system, making the boards somewhat safer, and those who are TWV may continue to do business with the sense that they have "priority" arrangements in a transaction due to the verification of their identity, etc. We all know the number of times rep threads have been abused and those who wish they were moderated; heck, even I want to remove the post from the idiot on my thread, but I know that moderating one means moderating thousands. The only "true" reputation can come from someone else who is considered formally reputable and truthfully represented. I wouldn't count any of the 2 or more scammers on my rep thread to actually count as "reputation" since they mistreated how the transaction should have occurred and violated terms several months afterwards.

Please move your post to the Rants and Rave section. It does not belong here.
 
Banned - multiple accounts - scammer - Vvalken
I should be at 3 itrader feedback, the most recent feedback i left the user was having problems leaving me feedback and said he pm'd one of you guys.
 
Mike, there is a problem with this. I have been a part of the vBulletin community for almost 5 years now. I have seen mods come and go. Putting all your faith in a reputation system that you did not build yourself will cause issues down the road. What happens if the creator decides to stop doing updates and stops supporting the mod and vBulletin continues to upgrade? You are back to square one. I am not saying that iTrader is not a good mod, because it is. I am just wondering if you are backing yourself into a concern with relying on it so heavily.
 
Banned - failed to resolve scam thread - http://www.epicnpc.com/scammers/448007-atraill-bought-leveling-services-but-never-paid.html
Why not just pay a bit to have your own feedback system that the COMMUNITY/atleast Mods agree with?... well that does cost money, nevermind.
 
Wasn't the point of rep threads in general to have non-twv people review one another. Obviously they should be taken with a grain of salt but I think they were still helpful in numerous circumstances while the itrader could be used for twv only. That's how Markee Dragon had it set up and everyone seemed to like that way fine. Why change a good thing?
 
Banned - failed to resolve scam thread - http://www.epicnpc.com/scammers/448007-atraill-bought-leveling-services-but-never-paid.html
Wasn't the point of rep threads in general to have non-twv people review one another. Obviously they should be taken with a grain of salt but I think they were still helpful in numerous circumstances while the itrader could be used for twv only. That's how Markee Dragon had it set up and everyone seemed to like that way fine. Why change a good thing?

Because it stunted the cash flow.
 
Because it stunted the cash flow.

atraill tread lightly friend you've been throwing alot of attitude around recently trying to start a flam fest and it's not going to be tolerated. You want to make constructive comments instead of one line gut shots then please do so but your recent activity will stop now, this is your one and only warning.
 
Banned - failed to resolve scam thread - http://www.epicnpc.com/scammers/448007-atraill-bought-leveling-services-but-never-paid.html
atraill tread lightly friend you've been throwing alot of attitude around recently trying to start a flam fest and it's not going to be tolerated. You want to make constructive comments instead of one line gut shots then please do so but your recent activity will stop now, this is your one and only warning.

I can't speak the truth? It's all true, I can't believe you even want to moderate these forums. I'm fed up with this bullshit, I was all for the transfer and trying to bring a positive attitude to the table but after all these bogus decisions, good-bye.
 
The truth hurts. I for one cannot stand for such.

But there will still be people defending even the most ridiculous things, such as this. It's just a natural instinct to fight for your higher-up entity, I guess.

No way in hell that someone in their right mind can say this was a 'good' or a change 'better off' for the community.

Like I have stated previously in another thread... It's like de-clawing a house cat. If they go out into the wild, you just took away one tool they have to defend themselves... -- De cyphered for people who don't understand: You just took away another resource people use to help weed through the tough brush of scammers.

This is just pure stupidity.
 
Banned - failed to resolve scam thread - http://www.epicnpc.com/scammers/451914-repped-twv-semi-scam-hybridpunk-owes-%24385-needs-pay-me-back-nowif-i-am-2.html
I believe this is a terrible change, I have dealt with several users that were legit and not TWV. With this change it basically forces me only deal with TWV users or people that have rep from a TWV user, because there is no other way to verify their rep.

I wish I understood why these negative changes are being made, all they are doing is turning away alot of people causing the site to lose traffic. I can understand that they help cut out scammers, but at what cost to legit users? My guess is that the admin gets a cut of TWV referrals and is trying to force everyone to do it (hover over the TWV link at the top of the page and you see a referral ID, just go to www.trustwho.com to bypass this.) But if these negative changes keep on coming, I do not forsee MMOBay staying open too much longer. Professional sellers already feel the impact of lost sales from the double switch, even after numerous empty promises that traffic would pick back up.

In short: Think thoroughly before you implement these changes instead of going by what a select few people swear will work (your moderators).
 
If i can offer some assistance on the matter, I think you moderators and other's who are making decisions need to let stuff rest for a while. Let the community get into the swing of things before you start doing other stuff please. Or you will be destined for failure in the long run. Just calm down and let the blocks fall into place, for the love of god...
 
If i can offer some assistance on the matter, I think you moderators and other's who are making decisions need to let stuff rest for a while. Let the community get into the swing of things before you start doing other stuff please. Or you will be destined for failure in the long run. Just calm down and let the blocks fall into place, for the love of god...

Mods aren't making the decision's homegrown. It was posted up for discussion in our private forums but no one said anything negative to the ideas yet when it's implemented that's when people start spouting off about how it's a horrible idea etc. I also want to reiterate that the mods on these forums are not paid what so ever, we do what we do because we have been long term members of this community and we love it and want to help.
 
Also, as far was the recent changes, these two minor changes are all that are on the drawing board and they have been being thought about since MD days folks not just now that Mike runs the site. Markee and his admins wanted to do away with rep threads forever because they're the bane of a mods existence when it come's to the added influx of scam attempts. I also want to leave you guys with some food for thought, you do realize that whether or not Mike took over the forums Marcus was going to close them right? So i for one think people should stop berating the man for wanting a return on his investment, it's just good business practice, and I'm sorry but in the end from Mike's stand point this is a business venture. Take things like this into account when your posting comments such as calling someone arrogant for wanting to bring revenue into their business and doing it in a constructive way. In the end this site is still free for you to use and trade and buy and sell. The only thing that MM sponsorship does is give a business( yes the MM services are minnie business's) a place to advertise and hock their products. Lets for example say you owned a billboard in a prime location on the highway and someone wanted to use that space to advertise their company yet they didn't want to pay for that because that would be arrogant for you to expect an income flow from the product you own that they want to utilize, yet you have to pay the upkeep and future expansion/upgrades for that product, is that fair?
 
I agree 100% that Mike should at least make his money back on this rather LARGE investment that he made and if there's anyway that I could possibly assist with it on the idea spectrum It would be much appreciated to allow me to shed input on decisions that are ran past the public. I also agree that this should be a community effort to get this site up and going to hopefully help one another out to get back to our old popularity level.
 
I agree 100% that Mike should at least make his money back on this rather LARGE investment that he made and if there's anyway that I could possibly assist with it on the idea spectrum It would be much appreciated to allow me to shed input on decisions that are ran past the public. I also agree that this should be a community effort to get this site up and going to hopefully help one another out to get back to our old popularity level.

No one wants that Home, they want to keep things same old same and no change yet I read post's constantly on MD talking about CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE that people wanted because it was the same old same but know that there is change it's a riot. Personally i'd value your input and i'd be happy to bring it up to the other staff. People want results fast but dont want to make the effort involved in implementing them and thats just not going to happen.
 
Banned - failed to resolve scam thread - http://www.epicnpc.com/scammers/448007-atraill-bought-leveling-services-but-never-paid.html
You consider this a mature response? I consider that a childish remark. I'm not going to argue with you atraill, you have your opinion which your entitled to and I have mine. I simply asked you to respect forum members and rules, thats all.

Very mature actually, it's the truth put in a harsh manner which it seems most mods have been treating members.

Oh wait.
 
Banned - failed to resolve scam thread - http://www.epicnpc.com/scammers/451914-repped-twv-semi-scam-hybridpunk-owes-%24385-needs-pay-me-back-nowif-i-am-2.html
I agree 100% that Mike should at least make his money back on this rather LARGE investment that he made and if there's anyway that I could possibly assist with it on the idea spectrum It would be much appreciated to allow me to shed input on decisions that are ran past the public. I also agree that this should be a community effort to get this site up and going to hopefully help one another out to get back to our old popularity level.

I agree that he should be able to make money on it, but to implement changes like this to basically force people to get TWV so they can trade, just so he can make money are the wrong way of doing it. Using an affiliate link or click on an ad are something that should be optional, not required.

As for new accounts making posts on the rep thread, if you are just looking at the rep and not looking at other factors, like their post count, if they had done a trade in the past, their join date. You deserve to be scammed for not paying attention.
 
Why should I be forced to buy something that is pointless and honestly rather stupid just to let people know how a trade went?
A rep thread let me warn people if something was fishy and to be careful, now I just have to wait for them to scam someone to post "Oh yeahhhh, he was like that with me, would have warned yah, but, no rep threads.
And I have the greatest feeling this was not planned out very well.
Here comes the days when TWV people refuse to trade with others since the non TWV people can't leave rep for them or since they really have nothing to judge people on, they'll be deemed unworthy for not wanting to purchase something I could verify in a couple of minutes.... for free.

I actually respect Btraill a whole mess more for stepping down, he's actually thinking and being smart.
Sorry Hyk, but you and the other mods are essentially just sucking the teat defending whatever Mike says without thinking of the community beforehand like a smart person would do.

But this thread will be locked, any time a mod gets pissy it gets locked, because no one here can take criticism.
 
I am going to post in regards to the preceding two posts by dudeafool and hybridpunk since they have been the only posts recently that offer criticism in a constructive and well-spoken manner.

Let's make one thing clear on this. Mike is not making money from TWV. TWV and MMOBay are not related in any single way, shape, or form, other than the fact that you can associate your TWV to your account here and then leave feedback for another member. That being said, this isn't a "cash flow" deal. This was discussed and implemented for the sole purpose of removing a secondary source of feedback which was considerably abused and inaccurate.

You deserve to be scammed for not paying attention.

No one deserves to be scammed. Out of respect for the general community and encompassing moral standards, scammers should not even exist. However, it's very easy to be cynical once someone has dipped their feet in this type of community and understands the "street," so to speak. No one deserves to be taken advantage of, or have their money stolen, or their account, or whatever. Period. It's like saying that it's okay for a thief to steal a person's wallet because they were flashing it in the air in a location where theft is common. That person does not deserve to be a victim under any circumstances.

Moving onto the point of a "TWV requirement," so to speak. No, you're not required to be TWV. Would it come in handy, I cannot argue that it wouldn't. I think that it's a pretty good system and its benefits extend beyond the $10 fee. I understand that you're upset about the fact that you cannot warn others about someone's fishy behavior or uncanniness in a transaction. There is an easy solution, however. Report a post with the description asking us to look at the user, since there are plenty of these reports I've gone through and was able to confirm previously banned accounts, etc. If you feel that the user is being substantially sketchy, feel free to post in the scam busters with an appropriate template to support your argument and any evidence that suggests the user may be up to something.

As to the TWV users who will refuse to trade with the non-TWV, that is their decision and theirs only. I simply suggest that theose who do continue to do the background checks necessary to keep themselves safe from being deceived.

Btraill stepped down for his own personal reasons, so I will not speak to that. However, I want to make it very clear that Hyk and I aren't staying to "suck up" to anyone. We are staying because we are here to help those who have been victimized. Anyone who has previously contacted me for help has received it, no question about it. If you are trying to find someone who scammed you, or need some guidance, we are here to help with the full extent of our ability.

The threads don't get locked because we get "pissy." I can tell you I have one simple request: I simply ask that the thread stay on topic and do so with no flaming. It's not a surprise the other thread has been locked as not only were there many insults passed, but also the thread was completely derailed.

If you have an opinion, let it be heard, but do it in a way that justifies and argument or solution. There should be no reason why someone just says, "This sucks." I applaud those who haven't and have provided great arguments and what not, and I'm sure if there is a solution that meets the goals of the community we'll change, but it's the community and not just the core - this includes those who joined yesterday, this month, this week, etc. who were scammed, do business, or just hang around. The community does not encircle only the few hundred (maybe) people who are experienced and post for enjoyment of talking to the other.

If you wish to speak to me personally at any time, just send me an IM or a PM and we can have a good conversation :). I will do my best to put aside any work to talk.
 
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Ive seen this context in several post's so far. You guys do realize the threads aren't being deleted right? They're simply being set to read only. People just wont be able to add to them

Yet again not making it able for non TWV to leave rep, a very low amount of members here are TWV so because they decided to spend 10$ on something completely unnecessary only they get to leave rep.
I refuse to spend 10$ on something so pointless, why must we be shunned away from other members who can not verify future rep we may receive and get refused service.
Here come the days when you see " Post here first, oh, can't verify your rep so you must be TWV also."
However pointless YOU though rep threads were, they had a use, you may be blind in seeing it, but it does.
 
Ok let me shed some light on this because i think it's getting a little out of hand. People are complaining about itrader and it's format, yet they forget that Markee Dragon had basically the same format where twv could only leave rep that affected someone's numbers that were clearly visible (everyone remembers the green positives and red negatives). I'd like any person who actually does business on this forum If they have ever taken another person's "rep thread" seriously and that answer would be no. Why you may ask? Well it's simple because anybody and their brother could post on your rep thread without ever doing business with you and ride off that claim. Yeah there are some people without twv who are legit, that's great, personally I think If they want others to think there legit that they should get twv themselves. If not there are still different ways to show others your legit. Like have a clean record (that search button shows all so if you were a scammer in the past, chances are we know already), provide correct contact information to buyers/sellers/traders. I betcha I can whip up some more ideas If someone wants to message me on aim but until then keep the criticism to a useful standard and actually think about what's happeneing to the forums.
 
Dude I completely see your point and issue with the move and I understand where your coming from but you also know that they are the most abused item by scammers on this forum, are they not? I woujldn't be apposed to implementing a change in the itrader feedback where after you have a certain history, lets say a month on the site, you can leave feedback. Mike is actually actively looking for a way to do this atm. Give things time folks. No one has said everything's official, take it how it is and like it because we dont care, have they?
 
Yet again not making it able for non TWV to leave rep, a very low amount of members here are TWV so because they decided to spend 10$ on something completely unnecessary only they get to leave rep.
I refuse to spend 10$ on something so pointless, why must we be shunned away from other members who can not verify future rep we may receive and get refused service.
Here come the days when you see " Post here first, oh, can't verify your rep so you must be TWV also."
However pointless YOU though rep threads were, they had a use, you may be blind in seeing it, but it does.

Let me get this straight, are you being treated any differently here than you were at Markee Dragon? Weren't you still shunned from leaving rep to other's besides those silly little gray reps at the bottom of the rep pages that blent in so much with the background that they were almost non-readable. The $10 spent for twv has increased my business tenfold and is easily justifiable on so many fronts, maybe you should personally contact a moderator before openly dissing carefully thought out decisions made on the forums.
 
Let me get this straight, are you being treated any differently here than you were at Markee Dragon? Weren't you still shunned from leaving rep to other's besides those silly little gray reps at the bottom of the rep pages that blent in so much with the background that they were almost non-readable. The $10 spent for twv has increased my business tenfold and is easily justifiable on so many fronts, maybe you should personally contact a moderator before openly dissing carefully thought out decisions made on the forums.

Congrats for getting increased business?
You make the claim that no one takes rep threads seriously, now I partially agree with you, however it's a general reference to judge others trading history.
Not everyone is a major seller such as yourself nor does everyone have the desire to do so.
You make it seem as TWV is the greatest thing to ever hit the world, it's not, not everyone wants to blow 10$ on something that a smart person can cheat, it does NOT give others 100% security in trading with them.
I don't trust you as much as I don't trust the next person, your TWV status does NOT give you some sort of major trading power on these or any forums and it should not be giving you a sense of entitlement, I'm not TWV and I'm just as legit as you, I don't need a little title to show so.
I'm fine with you having your TWV forum section, it's a perk you get, have at it, however, leave us normal, regular people who use these forums to trade occasionally when we can something to judge others on.
I've dealt with 2 TWV members and alot more non-TWV members why should I only get a 2 feedback when it shows my lack of trading, when my rep thread can show that other high repped members who are not TWV enjoyed trading with me and showed I'm legit?
This was not well thought out, and is a rather dumb idea that seems to have been thought up in a couple of minutes randomly.
 
Congrats for getting increased business?
You make the claim that no one takes rep threads seriously, now I partially agree with you, however it's a general reference to judge others trading history.
Not everyone is a major seller such as yourself nor does everyone have the desire to do so.
You make it seem as TWV is the greatest thing to ever hit the world, it's not, not everyone wants to blow 10$ on something that a smart person can cheat, it does NOT give others 100% security in trading with them.
I don't trust you as much as I don't trust the next person, your TWV status does NOT give you some sort of major trading power on these or any forums and it should not be giving you a sense of entitlement, I'm not TWV and I'm just as legit as you, I don't need a little title to show so.
I'm fine with you having your TWV forum section, it's a perk you get, have at it, however, leave us normal, regular people who use these forums to trade occasionally when we can something to judge others on.
I've dealt with 2 TWV members and alot more non-TWV members why should I only get a 2 feedback when it shows my lack of trading, when my rep thread can show that other high repped members who are not TWV enjoyed trading with me and showed I'm legit?
This was not well thought out, and is a rather dumb idea that seems to have been thought up in a couple of minutes randomly.

Did you even read my response? Or are you just content to voice negative views?
 
Did you even read my response? Or are you just content to voice negative views?

Mike's first post said to post if we have any concerns, it's what I am doing.
I'm pretty content since I'm voicing my opinion on something I believe should not be removed, be it negative in your eyes.
Mike wanted to keep the white skin since he liked the change until he received such a negative backlash from the members as he is receiving on this matter.

You're not mike, you don't make his decisions, so why would I take your post seriously?
I'm glad Btraill and Dj decided to step down, they stick true to the community which is what this website should be about, but that's madness to think so, don't you agree?
There is a reason TWV members are liking this change since only they can actively use this while we're sitting here like an unwanted step-child.

But, I feel this will lead to my banning since this site nor you mods (except TJP) can take any feedback for negative changes which is actually quite sad.
 
In response to your post dudeafool, Mike is at full cooperation with you guys. Present him with a solid idea and one that is reliable, and he will do it. He addressed the change in forum skin because people wanted it. To be quite honest, he could've saved a lot of time by just ignoring the community's petition, but he put in the effort and got it done.

What I think the issue is with your argument is that who do you believe is the community? Is it the users who post actively five times a day and contribute to Rants & Raves, the Watering Hole, etc? Is it the users who do business here? Or those that want to discuss gaming in general? To me, the community embodies every one of those 136,000 plus registered users on these forums, minus the scammers. And as sad as it is, many of those newly registered are being scammed lately because of the deceptive practices that rep threads are vulnerable to. I personally HATE the idea of "community punishment." I always have. It's just in my blood to not want to pay a price for the mistake or the actions of an individual. But I feel that, in this case, the sacrifice, while it is a very hard one to implement, is going to prevent a fraction - and it doesn't matter how small - of the scammers from succeeding. That is the whole point. I liked the idea of rep threads. I didn't like the consequences that resulted from them, and I feel that they have become problematic and for the benefit of the entire community, the removal will allow users to have a better experience on the boards.

I can also tell you right now you won't be banned for stating your opinion. No one has, nor will anyone. There is a major difference between disrespectful violation of the rules and speech on the forums. Feel free to criticize and to disagree, we ask that you do so in a constructive manner, but you will not be banned for it.
 
Mike's first post said to post if we have any concerns, it's what I am doing.
I'm pretty content since I'm voicing my opinion on something I believe should not be removed, be it negative in your eyes.
Mike wanted to keep the white skin since he liked the change until he received such a negative backlash from the members as he is receiving on this matter.

You're not mike, you don't make his decisions, so why would I take your post seriously?
I'm glad Btraill and Dj decided to step down, they stick true to the community which is what this website should be about, but that's madness to think so, don't you agree?
There is a reason TWV members are liking this change since only they can actively use this while we're sitting here like an unwanted step-child.

But, I feel this will lead to my banning since this site nor you mods (except TJP) can take any feedback for negative changes which is actually quite sad.

Wow you really didn't read my post did you?
Dude I completely see your point and issue with the move and I understand where your coming from but you also know that they are the most abused item by scammers on this forum, are they not?
Hrmm those words in there what are they? oh I
COMPLETELY SEE YOUR POINT AND UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERNS.
Also as for not listening to your feedback I also said
I woujldn't be apposed to implementing a change in the itrader feedback where after you have a certain history, lets say a month on the site, you can leave feedback. Mike is actually actively looking for a way to do this atm. Give things time folks. No one has said everything's official, take it how it is and like it because we dont care, have they?
I do hear your feedback and it's being discussed so saying I'm not listening when i've clearly stated I am is making your intentions not so clear. What more would you like me to say to you. As for
ou're not mike, you don't make his decisions, so why would I take your post seriously?
We have a private staff only forum that we actively discuss any changes to the site. Mike doesn't just say HEY I want this change and BAM it's done. The proposed changes were stated for a week or more in our forums and your heroes Btrail and mask NEVER ONCE said anything negative about them. And to answer this
But, I feel this will lead to my banning since this site nor you mods (except TJP) can take any feedback for negative changes which is actually quite sad.
I have no intention of banning you nor do any other mods. You have broken no rules and you stating your views which is being heard i promise you but don't let you post's degrade into defensive your picking on me content. Your a good guy Dude and a valuable member of the community please continue to show that.
 
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