Questions on Gold Selling

[Archblade]

Id like to quickly say hello to everyone, and a thank you to MKD for providing a great community and place to do business in, (even if there are a few rotten apples that ruin it once in a while for the rest of us).

Anyways back to the matter on hand, as many people who browse this part of the forums, I'm relatively new to all this. Tried selling an account before was a bit foolish, didn't do my research and got scammed. Well lesson learned lol.

Now a year has passed and id like to give it another shot, this time Ive been contemplating on starting a small gold selling business or in the beginning sell to some well known gold buyers. And this is where my question's start. Ive read the sticky's over, Ive found them a great help and learned alot but I noticed not many of them pertain to gold selling and buying in particular so I was hoping to be enlightened a bit by a few of you experienced in this trade and who have been doing it for a while.

So here are a few of my questions, sorry if there repeated but I just wanted them to be in one place lol.

How does the process go about? Is it the same as selling accounts, where you make the transaction through sites such as paypal, WU, etc and then deliver the gold to the buyer?

Branching off of that question, does scamming with chargebacks run as rampant as it does with account selling? And what are ways to prevent it as a gold seller?
(Maybe give a brief step by step explanation on how you would do the sale and which transaction sites you prefer to use)

How do you all more experienced, gold sellers make your transactions? Guildvault, face to face? Maybe explain the process a bit if possible?

And lastly if its not to much of a bother, how did you start off selling gold? Was it hard to get the business off the ground, spreading the word and gathering a consumer base?

Thank you everyone again, and I apologize in advance if these questions have been repeated or if the post is to lengthy, all of us were noobs at this at one point or another and I just wish to learn as much as possible from more experienced people out there as Im sure others are as well

 

[MARCKLAM]

first things first. please read the guides you will find in my signature to prevent yourself from being chargebacked after you deliver yours goods.

a few of the ones i recommend are:

1) google checkout (merchants account)
2) kat's paypal sellers guide
3) jano's western union guide
4) a few of the odd verification guides

steps regarding transaction would be roughly:

1) verify
2) accept payment
3) verify payment and take steps to prevent a recall
4) delivery - screenshot the transaction, keep detailed logs etc...
5) cross your fingers and be ready to contact blizzard over an "account compromise" to have your gold recovered if the user scams you - and send the screenshots of him buying gold to blizzard to his account locked for the trouble

as for location, i would recommend washing and laundering the gold first between at least 2 accounts and multiple characters before sending it.

when sending it, get the receiver to prepare several small items (e.g. reagents) so you can transfer the amount of gold in small amounts using different characters and possibly accounts.

this should help minimize the risk.

last but not least, get a dynamic VPN (virtual private network) from say i would recommend strongvpn.com. this way blizzard will not be able to trace the gold back to certain IPs and multiple accounts (which is a dead giveaway)

with gold selling, if you do not secure your end, your customers will also get banned = no recurring orders.

take the extra time and setup a secure and safe low risk system before attempting this or it will cost you nothing but a headache and pain in the backside.

questions? aim me!

 

[maskofdj-Account closed]

i sold gold before to mmoinn.com and never had ne problems before

 

[MARCKLAM]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maskofdj17</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i sold gold before to mmoinn.com and never had ne problems before </div></div>

original poster is trying to find out how to sell gold to people in general as individuals, not a company

 

[maskofdj-Account closed]

ah ok see im a blond shhh blame alexandra hehe

 

[Archblade]

Thanks Marcklam for the quick response, was very informative.
Ill definitely take a look at the guides you advised to take a look at.

Now allow me a few more questions,

When you say take steps to prevent a recall, what would be some simple examples, like getting scans of the persons ID, phone number,having the persons email match his paypal info?
That kind of stuff can seem to be quite a bit of a headache in its own regard especially when the person is buying small amounts, for example 1k or so. Or is there something simpler Im missing.

Next When screenshoting the transaction, do you mean the trade in WoW itself? Or through Emails and AIM. And when keeping logs for my records, whats important to log?

And lastly in the case of the gold being scammed, how would I go about saying the user scammed me? If a transaction such as your example gold for regents took place, doesnt blizz see it as a legit transaction where you accepted the trade? Or does Blizz give back the gold regardless

I like the idea of the screenshot to blizz of the person buying gold, but what kind of screenshots would i take to prove he was actually buying gold? Like send the actual screenshot of the trade taking place in game? Wouldnt that compromise my security as well?

Phew, so much on my mind lol, anyways Thank you so much again Marcklam for taking the time to post, its extremely appreciated, and sorry if some of the questions come off as a bit dense or obvious

Also Ill definetely take a look at VPN, I actually was planning to do so but was researching around for a reliable one to use Ill check strongvpn.com out.

 

[MARCKLAM]

1) at least match their physical to paypal address (only deal with verified) as well as use the correct merchant tools and combination of money request to make the transaction as difficult to recall as possible - for large amounts, use western union.

this thread in particular would come in handy:
http://www.markeedragon.com/u/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/659828/an/0/page/0#659828

as well as this one:
http://www.markeedragon.com/forums/ubbth...L_GOODS_#UNREAD

as well as:
http://www.markeedragon.com/forums/ubbth...AMM#Post1025381

2) both. aim, paypal and ingame screenshots. at the very worst you can send these to blizzard and get his account closed for scamming you (this is of course if you cannot get your gold recovered in game - paging a GM with most likely result in BOTH (yours and his) accounts getting locked with an ID fax needed to unlock it)

notify the GM that your account was compromised - before you do this, turn off the VPN, log into the account do a couple BGs or something then log out, turn the VPN on again and get back in game. this change in IP usually convinces GMs to see things your way.

3) strongvpn is the best in my books.

i am more than happy to answer any questions you would like to follow up with. if i was unclear in anyway, please post here with questions or get in touch with me over AIM and we can have to chat over VENTRILO.

 

[Archblade]

Again thanks Marcklam for the help,

Everything you posted was clear and answered a lot of my questions, I read over the links and they helped a great deal except for one part that wasn't to clear to me in the 3rd link.

"Most scams I have seen are the result of someone claiming an “Unauthorized Transaction”. If a scammer tries to recall their money after receiving a registered mail for the transaction (That comes later) by Unauthorized Transaction, they will lose because the “goods” have been sent with a tracking number. The post office will verify that the “goods” were delivered. After that, it would be very difficult for a scammer to attempt to make a new claim for “Incorrect Description of Goods” since they filed an Unauthorized Transaction claim."

Whats your advise on this in terms of gold selling, it wasn't very clear on how I should label the goods in that post when dealing with gold, especially some parts of the quote seemed to have not come out to well. And should I be sending something tangible that's agreed between us, to prevent the scam like in the selling of an account instance?

That's about it on the questions for now I hope

. You've been a great help Marcklam, and I thank you for that.

 

[MARCKLAM]

there are specific ways over paypal i use to prevent this. let me double check what i am allowed to reveal as part of my moderator conduct : )
gimme a day or so and i will get back to you asap.

thank you for your patience.

 

[Archblade]

Of course Marcklam, take your time please, you've done more then enough in terms of help already and I really appreciate it.

In the mean time Ill just continue my research, hope to hear from you soon

 

[MARCKLAM]

alrighty. first things first.

assumption: you have asked the user for his first name, last name, address and registered landline. placed a call to his landline to verify it is indeed his place or residence and matched the address to the landline. use the white or yellow pages for this.

oh and match it to the TW Loc you see under his username. e.g. yours is TW Loc: Brooklyn, New York, United States while this is not always accurate, it should at least match the state

1) create a money request and send it to the paypal you want to receive money from (do not under any circumstances just go "kk, here is my paypal, please send me XXX" - you will get scammed for "item not received".

2) under the details of the money receipt, place in the title and description "digital delivery of an intangible world of warcraft item - by accepting, buyer waives paypal buyer protection policy"

3) get the buyer to now send you an email from his verified (if its a normal account, do NOT deal with him and refund the money) stating

"i (insert name) of (insert address / phone number) hereby authorize the payment tendered of value (insert) to (your paypal) on (insert date) for digital delivery of an intangible world of warcraft item - by accepting, i waives the paypal buyer protection policy" attached is my IP address (tell him to copy and paste it from here http://whatismyipaddress.com/).

digitally signed (insert buyer name)

4) after you have verified the email address get him to tender you the money via the money receipt.

if the name or address or landline in the paypal money details does NOT match the ones he gave you, refund the money and request a western union if he wants to deal. do NOT accept echecks.

5) once you have the money, instantly move it to your bank account (it will be put on hold for 2-3 days) - even if he was to recall it, paypal would just put your account into negative and you hold the money

6) deliver the washed gold in game (method at your discretion)

good luck! feel free to aim me if needed!

using this method, you will hopefully avoid both "unauthorized access" and "item not received" paypal scams.

also consider kats sellers guide to not being scammed for large sums

ciao!

 

[Archblade]

Awesome Marcklam that was exactly what I was looking for clear, easy to understand, and easy to follow.

You've been of more help then I could've asked for

Now While doing research and brainstorming Ideas of how to safely sell my goods, I came upon an idea, and was wondering how plausible it would or if it was mentioned before.

As most of us know, Paypal will not cover intangible goods, and many people have said agreeing that the buyer buys not the virtual good in paypal but something trivial agreed between the two parties.

For example when selling an account people usually ship the CD, CD keys, and the account info get a tracking number and send it to the buyer, and that is what is agreed upon that is sold through paypal so it becomes a tangible good.

Now my idea with selling gold was to make business cards, 100 or so cost about 4 bucks these days. Have my email/aim on it, and heres the important part a code made by me and written down somewhere on the card. We would agree in paypal that the card with the information is what is being sold in paypal. And as soon as The money has been sent to my paypal account I send the letter off with the card in the mail with First Rate shipping which takes 2-3 days at most anywhere in the country for like 5 bucks.

Now When the person receives the mail he will have to sign it off with the mailman and the good is seen as "delivered" so then Im protected there as well. He also will have to open the mail get the code on the card specifically made out to him and contact me through AIM with the code. It matches and the gold will be delivered and cleared within 30 mins-1 hour.

So Marcklam, id love to hear what you think of this and if its a good idea or is to annoying of a process for the buyer to go through to actually sell the good.

Hope to hear from you soon, again thanks for everything, you definitely put me in the right direction!

 

[MARCKLAM]

as usual, ill do my research and get back to you

please be patient

 

[MARCKLAM]

i think while your idea is a good one, it actually is overkill

unfortunately, most buyers as far as i am concerned are unwilling to wait 2-3 days for a tracked and insured shipping to receive their gold.

western union is also not the best idea for this given the timeframe requirements.

i would recommend just taking paypal for the convenience and relative security if the proper precautions are made.

good luck!

 

[Archblade]

Okay Marcklam, yea it did seem a bit overkill lol, just started brainstorming ideas and that was one that seemed interesting to me.

Anyways thanks for all the help you've provided its been invaluable and will definitely be put to good use

Hope to talk to you again

-Arch

 

[MARCKLAM]

if you need anything, please contact me directly here or over AIM

always happy to help!

 

[Manderis]

Selling gold through paypal will always be risky. There is never that 100% chance of your money being safe. There are many steps you can take though to get as close to 100% as possible.

How i sell gold:

1. Find a client who wants to buy. Il explain to them how the payment process works and then make sure they agree on it.

2. Send a paypal invoice to the buyer's paypal email. Invoicing in my opinion is much safer then having the person just send you the money. In the invoice you can also add a note in which i put

Note: By payment, you signify understanding and acceptance with the following. This is payment for virtual goods and is nonrefundable and not protected by paypal's buyer protection policies. By payment, you acknowledge receipt of goods and satisfaction. You waive right to dispute payment on grounds of receipt, quality, description or any other reason.

This note will usually scare off anyone looking to scam and it also makes you look more professional and that you know what your doing.

3. After they have paid look over the info from their paypal address and then call the number on the paypal account to verify the order. You can also request their IP address to look up their location to match it to their paypal account, which is a great step to preventing fraud.

4. Meet them in game and give them their gold.

I do this process with all of my customers and i have never had any problems. If someone seems sketchy or has bad english i would be more careful.

If you would like to read more, i have some articles on my website on account safety and how to go about selling. WoW Buying, Selling, and trading safety

Hoped this helped and if you have any other questions you can contact me via aim or email