Epicnpc should protect sellers and buyers

[HaniOtaku]

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

Okay so few days ago i opened a dispute against a scammer who did open a chargeback on paypal
Epicnpc refuse to help despite the transaction happen on their platform chat thats not acceptable
I would understand if the transaction made on discord since epicnpc not responsible for any trades
outside of their platforms but why you are not taking responsibility for deals made on your website ?
You cant just force everyone to use tradeguardian this system is very annoying for new buyers
and has a lot of unnecessary steps most of buyers prefer to simply send you the payment and get
account infos its should be simple i made a transaction on epicnpc then epicnpc should invetigate
any disputes it doesnt matter if TG used or not as long as the deal was on Epicnpc not on Discord

 

[EpicNPC]

Investigations when TG is not used are typically 4-5 times more time consuming. In most cases most of the evidence is not there and we have to spend time requesting it. Often this involves off-site evidence, which we can't confirm is real or fake, so then we have to request more evidence, often videos. We'd love to investigate everything, but it is not logistically possible as it is a very time consuming process.

As apposed with TG where we have most, if not all the evidence right from the start. Many times I can start and complete an investigation without the buyer or seller's input.

This change was made to provide a benefit to Trade Guardian services. Members that don't wish to use it don't have to, but those transactions are not eligible to be investigated. I'm sorry.

That said, we still review all scam reports. If someone makes a claim they were scammed, we'll review the accused accounts and any data on-site. If we can confirm a scam occurred or the user is a previously banned member, they'll be banned.

 

[HaniOtaku]

Investigations when TG is not used are typically 4-5 times more time consuming. In most cases most of the evidence is not there and we have to spend time requesting it. Often this involves off-site evidence, which we can't confirm is real or fake, so then we have to request more evidence, often videos. We'd love to investigate everything, but it is not logistically possible as it is a very time consuming process.

Im not talking about off-site transactions im talking about transactions made on epicnpc chat its your own platform if we cant ask for epicnpc support then who gonna help

 

[HaniOtaku]

Please give the user a negative feedback instead.

This is funny if i gave the scammer a negatif feedback and he decided to do the same Epicnpc wont remove the fake negatif feedback because TG not used
so i will get scammed + i get a fake negatif feedback as bonus

 

[Adoxia]

This is funny if i gave the scammer a negatif feedback and he decided to do the same Epicnpc wont remove the fake negatif feedback because TG not used
so i will get scammed + i get a fake negatif feedback as bonus

Trade Guardian has a free option. If you are already using EpicNPC chat there is no reason not to use Trade Guardian Free. We would investigate those.

 

[EpicNPC]

Im not talking about off-site transactions im talking about transactions made on epicnpc chat its your own platform if we cant ask for epicnpc support then who gonna help

Chats do not categorize the information we need when investigating a dispute. This requires us to search through the chat, which often can be very long, for the important information we need.

Trade Guardian on the other hand has steps requesting this important information. We can then very quickly go from step to step to find the information we need.

While using the on-site chat is much better than off-site, it is still not as fast as Trade Guardian when it comes to dispute investigations.

As mentioned above, Trade Guardian has a free service. If you have suggestions on how to streamline the process, feel free to post your suggestions and perhaps we can improve it so it's not so "annoying" for members.

 

[HaniOtaku]

We would investigate those.

what do you mean EpicNPC said that they dont investigate feedback if a transaction is made
(despite that i seen some exceptions made for mods and some high feedbacks users but it doesnt matter anyway)

 

[EpicNPC]

Feedback is not exactly the same as disputes.

Feedback can only be given if a transaction started, this means something is exchanged. If item, service or payments is exchanged, feedback is allowed.

If TG was not used, we will ask for proof of sale. The user will then have to show something was exchanged.

If exchange was made, feedback is allowed and we do not investigate any further.
If exchanged was not made, feedback is removed.

If there was a problem and both parties confirm it was resolved, we can also update negative feedback to neutral.

 

[HaniOtaku]

If exchange was made, feedback is allowed and we do not investigate any further.
If exchanged was not made, feedback is removed.

Great so the scammer can get both money and account and leave a fake negatif feedback which wont get removed xD

Feedback is not exactly the same as disputes.

its exactly the same if fake and revenge feedbacks are not investigated

 

[EpicNPC]

I agree with what you're saying, but your solution is not logistically possible.

This change was made a few years ago because we could not keep up with disputes. We did it for free for a very long time, but as the site grew we reached a point where we could no longer handle the volume. A decision was made to concentrate on transactions via TG because we could review more disputes in less time and free up staff to better moderator the forum and be pro-active against scammers.

Reviewing all transaction via chat and all feedback will simply overwhelm the system almost immediately. The dispute queue will be weeks long or longer making the investigation even more difficult. It will overwhelm our staff and cause strain, as well give a bad impression to members who have to wait weeks for their disputes to be reviewed.

None of this is a positive for Epicnpc or our staff.

This is a decision each person can make for themselves. You can trade a few extra minutes of your time by using TG and if a dispute is reported, we will spend our time to fully investigate it. That seems fair to me.

 

[HaniOtaku]

I agree with what you're saying, but your solution is not logistically possible.

This change was made a few years ago because we could not keep up with disputes. We did it for free for a very long time, but as the site grew we reached a point where we could no longer handle the volume. A decision was made to concentrate on transactions via TG because we could review more disputes in less time and free up staff to better moderator the forum and be pro-active against scammers.

Reviewing all transaction via chat and all feedback will simply overwhelm the system almost immediately. The dispute queue will be weeks long or longer making the investigation even more difficult. It will overwhelm our staff and cause strain, as well give a bad impression to members who have to wait weeks for their disputes to be reviewed.

None of this is a positive for Epicnpc or our staff.

This is a decision each person can make for themselves. You can trade a few extra minutes of your time by using TG and if a dispute is reported, we will spend our time to fully investigate it. That seems fair to me.

there is another solution you can ask anyone who did open a dispute and didnt use TG to pay a small fees
in this way you will reduce the large volume of requests and support the platform in the same time

 

[Adoxia]

there is another solution you can ask anyone who did open a dispute and didnt use TG to pay a small fees
in this way you will reduce the large volume of requests and support the platform in the same time

Users could just use the free Trade Guardian which solves all these issues and the buyer/seller do not need to pay anything.

If users use free trade guardian we would investigate both the dispute and feedback if it is an issue.

 

[fakerjockey2508]

https://www.epicnpc.com/members/aliak23.1771798/

like this guy, he used my service, after i finished it (there is proof on my youtube channel and i showed it when i disputed the feedback), but then he tried to dispute to get his money back on paypal but luckily i won the paypal dispute, he was angry and gave me 1 star feedback without being able to protest while i have full proof, it's ridiculous not being able to protest a scammer

 

[fakerjockey2508]

i have faced many scammers before in epicseven community, i have fought against many scammers to protect epicseven players in vietnam but here i am helpless, scammers can always beat me easily with a small deal of 5-10 usd lol

 

[fakerjockey2508]

I agree with what you're saying, but your solution is not logistically possible.

This change was made a few years ago because we could not keep up with disputes. We did it for free for a very long time, but as the site grew we reached a point where we could no longer handle the volume. A decision was made to concentrate on transactions via TG because we could review more disputes in less time and free up staff to better moderator the forum and be pro-active against scammers.

Reviewing all transaction via chat and all feedback will simply overwhelm the system almost immediately. The dispute queue will be weeks long or longer making the investigation even more difficult. It will overwhelm our staff and cause strain, as well give a bad impression to members who have to wait weeks for their disputes to be reviewed.

None of this is a positive for Epicnpc or our staff.

This is a decision each person can make for themselves. You can trade a few extra minutes of your time by using TG and if a dispute is reported, we will spend our time to fully investigate it. That seems fair to me.

i think you right, It's too difficult to support the whole thing, we will pay attention and be more careful, but you should also listen to the real feedback of people who have a certain reputation, people with great reputation in a certain gaming community like me are not many, I can help within the scope of the game I am running.

 

[HaniOtaku]

WARNING! Off-site contact information posted. Most scams occur off-site. Please contact members directly via EpicNPC chat. We do not investigate disputes if you communicate off-site.

Users could just use the free Trade Guardian which solves all these issues and the buyer/seller do not need to pay anything.

If users use free trade guardian we would investigate both the dispute and feedback if it is an issue.

I completely understand that the free Trade Guardian system is the ideal and safest method for transactions

However in reality many users still prefer dealing through direct chat or Discord, either for speed or convenience and completely refusing to investigate those disputes may protect the platform from extra workload but it also opens the door to a growing number of scams false feedback, and unmoderated activity all of which damage the site's reputation and trust.


My suggestion is not to replace TG, but to create a middle ground allow dispute investigations outside TG in exchange for a small fee a kind of support processing fee. This way:

1. Scammers will be discouraged from abusing off-site deals since there's still a risk of being investigated
2. The site generates revenue from these cases, helping fund support staff.
3. Legit buyers and sellers feel safer knowing they have a last-resort option if things go wrong outside TG.

This policy would not reduce TG usage it would still be the default and free option but it offers flexibility and fairness for the large portion of users who still use direct deals for various reasons
you can make the fees between 5$-20$ for each dispute
and can apply it for both feedback disputes and transactions disputes like for example 5$ for each feedback dispute and 10$ for each transaction dispute outside TG
If your main concern is the high volume of transactions i think this is a fair suggestion

 

[EpicNPC]

there is another solution you can ask anyone who did open a dispute and didnt use TG to pay a small fees
in this way you will reduce the large volume of requests and support the platform in the same time

That is not a solution I'd consider. I'm sorry.

1. The person that pays to have their dispute investigated will assume they will win because they paid. If they do not, they will want their money back or in some cases will dispute the payment.
2. In general it would give the impression you could pay EpicNPC to have a favorable outcome to a dispute. We do not want to give members that impression, especially when it would not be true.

This would cause more problems then it would solve in my opinion.

like this guy, he used my service, after i finished it (there is proof on my youtube channel and i showed it when i disputed the feedback), but then he tried to dispute to get his money back on paypal but luckily i won the paypal dispute, he was angry and gave me 1 star feedback without being able to protest while i have full proof, it's ridiculous not being able to protest a scammer

This would required a full investigation.

1. Was the service provided successfully?
2. Did the account get banned or a warning issued immediately after the service? We would need to confirm the account reported is the same account the service was provided to.
3. If yes, what happened and when? Evidence would need to be collected to determine who's likely at fault, buyer or seller.
4. Possible support ticket required to gather further evidence.

This is a very time consuming dispute to investigate. We don't want sellers to get unfair feedback, but we also can't investigate every dispute. Again, we have to revert back to whether TG was used or not.

 

[HaniOtaku]

This would required a full investigation.

1. Was the service provided successfully?
2. Did the account get banned or a warning issued immediately after the service? We would need to confirm the account reported is the same account the service was provided to.
3. If yes, what happened and when? Evidence would need to be collected to determine who's likely at fault, buyer or seller.
4. Possible support ticket required to gather further evidence.

what the point of this if you are not investigating any transactions outside of TG anyway
it doesnt matter if the feedback fake you wont help him anyway

 

[EpicNPC]

How do we know if it's fake? The person that receives the negative feedback is going to say 99% of the time the feedback is false, fake, wrong or not their fault. To make this determination we then have to investigate the transaction and service.

We can't just accept someone's claim that "it's fake" and remove it.

 

[HaniOtaku]

How do we know if it's fake? The person that receives the negative feedback is going to say 99% of the time the feedback is false, fake, wrong or not their fault. To make this determination we then have to investigate the transaction and service.

We can't just accept someone's claim that "it's fake" and remove it.

at least move it to neutral since the buyer also didnt use TG so why you are taking the buyer side
if you remove it the buyer will say his feedback is true if you didnt the seller will say its fake
without fair investigation it should be neutral so you can simply move any feedback dispute to neutral if TG not used

 

[EpicNPC]

We'll contemplate this, but we can't just make this a blanket rule. 100% of members who receive negative feedback and who didn't use TG will claim "fake". This will results in all negative feedback being changed to neutral and allowing scammers to scam more.

 

[HaniOtaku]

We'll contemplate this, but we can't just make this a blanket rule. 100% of members who receive negative feedback and who didn't use TG will claim "fake". This will results in all negative feedback being changed to neutral and allowing scammers to scam more.

well you can make some rules like only member with +100 positif feedbacks / registred for over 1 to 3 years can apply
since highly trusted old members are very unlikely to scam and those who care the most about their feedbacks and reputation
and most of scams come from buyers anyway since most of them are not ID verified

 

[EpicNPC]

We can't do that either. If this type of rule is implemented, it would be based on evidence, not based on who the member is.

Possibly some sort of automated dispute system where the user provides a video to backup their claims. Based on that a determination could be made if the feedback can be changed to neutral instead of negative.

 

[HaniOtaku]

We can't do that either. If this type of rule is implemented, it would be based on evidence, not based on who the member is.

Possibly some sort of automated dispute system where the user provides a video to backup their claims. Based on that a determination could be made if the feedback can be changed to neutral instead of negative.

ok got it that looks fair enouph