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Beta Key forum now requires "Epic Member" upgrade

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To create a thread in the Beta Key forum members must either upgrade their account to 'Epic Verified' or to 'Epic Members' status.

There seems to be an extremely high rate of scamming going on with the Wildstar beta keys, but really this seems to happen anytime a popular game goes into beta. To combat the number of scammers trying to sell fake or used beta keys, only members who have verified a phone number and Paypal account will be able to sell beta keys now.

All members can reply to threads, but only Verified and Epic Members will be able to create threads.
 
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Banned - 3 seperate scam disputes : https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/1089213-Scammed-by-lordangelo1019
very good job for doing this now returning scammers cant post there. thank u very much very good move.. i like where this site is going.
 
Definitely seems like a smart move.
 
my original idea was to make it so only epicnpc verified members could post/create threads in there but mike thought it would be best to allow the epic member rank to be allowed to post / create threads aswell.
 
Banned - 3 seperate scam disputes : https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/1089213-Scammed-by-lordangelo1019
or no new members can. so scammers cant post threads. they keep coming back after getting banned so many times already
 
well as epicnpc stated only people who pay to become epicnpc verified or to become an epicnpc member will be able to create threads in there.
 
I don't like the idea of Epic Members being able to post in there to sell.

They can just buy a prepaid sim and a prepaid MasterCard to verify their paypal which won't release any personal info when a scam takes place, only their number and paypal will be released.

Anyways, that's just EpicNPCs decision
 
Yes, but remember, not all the Epic Members are scammers.
 
I don't like the idea of Epic Members being able to post in there to sell.

They can just buy a prepaid sim and a prepaid MasterCard to verify their paypal which won't release any personal info when a scam takes place, only their number and paypal will be released.

Anyways, that's just EpicNPCs decision
Yes, scammers can buy pre-paid phone and CC, however that takes much more work and money to do and after being banned they would have to continue to buy more sim cards as phone numbers can only be used once here.

I also manually review every account that upgrades to 'Epic Member' and check their IP address to make sure it matches the area/country code of the phone number being used as well as an IP search to make sure they are not on a proxy or their IP doesn't match to a previously banned member. Really the only difference between Epic Member and Verified is the ID image is not provided for Epic Member upgrades. All the other checks are performed.
 
Banned - 3 seperate scam disputes : https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/1089213-Scammed-by-lordangelo1019
so right now u can automatically upgrade to epic member? they must wait for approval for 24 hours? if yes then i like where its going. but if its automatic then its useless they can just keep paying 3$ and scam 100++ they still profit
 
so right now u can automatically upgrade to epic member? they must wait for approval for 24 hours? if yes then i like where its going. but if its automatic then its useless they can just keep paying 3$ and scam 100++ they still profit
The 'Epic Member' upgrade is instant, where Verified is manually added after an account review. I check all new 'Epic Members' at the same time when I do my daily Verification reviews, so yes someone that upgrades to Epic Member will have a few hours before I check the account.

The 'Epic Member' upgrade is not meant to be the same as Verified, which is why it's instant. It does however offer much more protection than the default free member group which has no verification checks. The main point of making this a requirement is to vastly slow down the scammers offering fake beta keys.

While some beta keys like Hearthstone or Wildstar might be selling for $100+, many beta keys to less popular games sell for $10-50. Requiring a $10 fee to get Verified and sell a beta key worth $15 would destroy profit margins so I don't want to do that. $3 on the other hand isn't a bid deal.

If this prevent 90% of scammers from posting in the beta key forum, then it will be a huge success. Sure a few will go through the trouble of getting multiple phone numbers and registering multiple paypal accounts, but not many. The whole point of scamming a beta key is it's very easy and fast. If these people have to start going through a check and get banned in under 24 hrs, that's going to make the leave the site and look for an easier targets somewhere else.
 
Banned - 3 seperate scam disputes : https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/1089213-Scammed-by-lordangelo1019
true very true the moment u implemented this OC wildstar section got flooded with scammers posting and creating threads. i can easy spot them whos legit and who is not
 
I cant create post in here now? Shouldnt i be able to do that?
Do you mean post a thread in this forum, as in the News/Announcements forum? If so, no. I believe only EpicNPC and Super Mods can do that (Mods might be able to, as well? Not sure), but anyone can reply to the threads.
 
I've seen/reported a few thread hijackers. Could you add to your thread on requiring the upgrade that thread hijacking isn't tolerated?
 
Banned - dispute - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/keiichi-owes-me-fees-i-hope-he-is-okay-cool-dude.1433002/
Anyone wishing to sell a Beta key must upgrade their account to Epic Member, Epic Verified or Premium Pro Seller. This includes posting in WTB threads. Beta accounts follow the same rules as beta keys.

The same with Epic Member, Epic Verified and Premium Pro Seller looking to buy Beta keys/accounts from Unverified are neither allowed.

http://www.epicnpc.com/announcement.php?f=115
 
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No Hulk, the bans already got administered. Someone posted selling 2 ESO stress test keys for $15. The first reply was I'll sell 2 for $14.
 
To create a thread in the Beta Key forum members must either upgrade their account to 'Epic Verified' or to 'Epic Members' status.

There seems to be an extremely high rate of scamming going on with the Wildstar beta keys, but really this seems to happen anytime a popular game goes into beta. To combat the number of scammers trying to sell fake or used beta keys, only members who have verified a phone number and Paypal account will be able to sell beta keys now.

All members can reply to threads, but only Verified and Epic Members will be able to create threads.


Well according to a super mod, I am breaking the rules by buying and selling keys from unverified members. My understanding of the above means that new users who are unverified cant create threads for the purpose of sales.

My understanding was I could still buy or sell keys from members who approach me directly.

I have received a warning today. I am very concerned as this is how I make a living, and have done so for the last year.

I bring in a lot of new customers to epicnpc. People who register to the site because I require them to post in my threads as I do to confirm identity.

I have sold over 120+ keys and accounts, all 100% satisfied customers as well as safe on both ends.

How do I do this?

1. I am approached with keys, I tell them to email me with all info, and that they will be paid upon sale of said keys as each key sales.

2. When I sell a key, I require customers to "share screens" via Skype as I watch them enter the keys for verification.

I have essentially cut out ALL forms of scams possible and take ALL risks of chargebacks (in which out of 29k in sales I have had one recall of funds, and paypal gave me half back through the dispute.)

So confused how Mike's post has become changed into new rules of -

"No pro seller is allowed to buy/sell keys from an unverified member or new member who just registered using google"

This means I have to tell almost 90% of my customers to first become verified before I can sell them keys, or sell their keys?!

This is 24 hr wait period as well for verification to even go through.

I am essentially having my hands cut off if these are the new rules.

I thought I was making the beta sales section "safe" along with a few other select Pro sellers?

Isnt that our job as senior members here at EpicNpc? To encourage a safe sales and trade environment?

- - - Updated - - -

Actual beta sales rule:

•Anyone wishing to sell a Beta key must upgrade their account to Epic Member, Epic Verified or Premium Pro Seller. This includes posting in WTB threads. Beta accounts follow the same rules as beta keys.

- - - Updated - - -

The 'Epic Member' upgrade is instant, where Verified is manually added after an account review. I check all new 'Epic Members' at the same time when I do my daily Verification reviews, so yes someone that upgrades to Epic Member will have a few hours before I check the account.

The 'Epic Member' upgrade is not meant to be the same as Verified, which is why it's instant. It does however offer much more protection than the default free member group which has no verification checks. The main point of making this a requirement is to vastly slow down the scammers offering fake beta keys.

While some beta keys like Hearthstone or Wildstar might be selling for $100+, many beta keys to less popular games sell for $10-50. Requiring a $10 fee to get Verified and sell a beta key worth $15 would destroy profit margins so I don't want to do that. $3 on the other hand isn't a bid deal.

If this prevent 90% of scammers from posting in the beta key forum, then it will be a huge success. Sure a few will go through the trouble of getting multiple phone numbers and registering multiple paypal accounts, but not many. The whole point of scamming a beta key is it's very easy and fast. If these people have to start going through a check and get banned in under 24 hrs, that's going to make the leave the site and look for an easier targets somewhere else.[/QUOTE]

The way I been doing it has made it 100% safe for both sides as well as myself. I have cut out all scammers with my process which is essentially a glorified version of MM. So as a MM am I only allowed to deal with verified people too now?
 
ok since there is a lot of confusion here the rule clearly states

•Anyone wishing to sell a Beta key must upgrade their account to Epic Member, Epic Verified or Premium Pro Seller. This includes posting in WTB threads. Beta accounts follow the same rules as beta keys

so if they want to sell you their key then they MUST upgrade their account to atleast epic member to be able to sell you a key.

If your ignoring the rule and getting them to post and yet still buying their key then the warning is fair.

We make these rules for the safety of the WHOLE community not just 1 set of members.
 
You may not buy beta codes from unverified users. Simple and to the point. Nobody who is not verified not may sell a beta code. We temp banned someone yesterday for ignoring a warning.
 
Ok, so basically even though I am a authorized Middlemen (which is suppose to make safe trades/sells for people unverified or not) I am no longer allowed to do this with wildstar or other beta keys?

So for me not to be "breaking" the rules anymore should I buy all my keys "offsite" and refer all people who choose to use my services to go there via Skype?

If so, I will get my keys offsite from now on completely. Then bring them here to sale. Is this the correct course of action for me so I am following the rules as they are intended?

- - - Updated - - -

This means as a Middleman I can only deal with both parties being verified as well, correct?
 
Banned - dispute - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/keiichi-owes-me-fees-i-hope-he-is-okay-cool-dude.1433002/
Let me correct you. You breaking the rules by buying from Unverified users but not by selling to Unverified users (Grey) I understand that you make a living of this, many other members makes a living of it aswell but there is a fair high amount of scams going on mostly from unverified members just when it comes to beta keys so therefore we moderators had a talk regarding this to for the best way avoid these scams to be taking place. I also understand that not all unverified members are scammers but as i wrote a high amount of them are scammers as i've seen over the years i've been a moderator here at EpicNPC.

We have sticked threads in that section and amount of other guides around the forum how to protect being scammed but doesn't help much so we found this as the best solution to stop these scams, not only i agreed on this but all other mods aswell. If people are serious about selling Beta keys at this forum they can afford the amount of 3$ for an Epic Member upgrade and verify their phone nr that atleast makes it more safe for members to purchase from them, if it turn out that they upgraded just to scam then i barely belive that they will waste another 3$ again just to scam another member again. Yesterday i spoke with Mike again over AIM and he thought it was best to also add that we we should follow the same rules as Leveling does, so members cannot post in WTB threads selling their beta keys either and indeed we mods agreed on that.

So to make it clear again, Only Verified and Epic Members are allowed to sell and make threads in the beta section and unverified users are not. Unverified users are not allowed to hijack Epic Verified and Epic Members threads and post that they aswell sell beta keys and Epic Verified, Epic Members and unverified are not allowed to buy from other unverified members but all user groups are allowed to buy from Epic Verified and Epic Members.

If people doesn't agree with these rules then there are other sites where they can buy and sell Beta keys that doesn't have the same restrictions as EpicNPC has now when it becomes to selling/buying beta keys and we won't change this rule so if people doesn't feel fine with this and doesn't want to follow these rules then they can go over to other forums. Beta key section will be highly moderated so to avoid Infractions/Bans members should follow these simply rules.
 
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I don't know how you are still confused we clarified it for you as simple as we could


non epic member or verified member status = cant sell beta keys
verified member / epic member status = can sell beta keys

if you want to take your purchases elsewhere then that is your choice

and yes this involves middle manning as if they aren't verified or at least at the epic member rank then they are breaking forum rules.


I don't think we can make this anymore clearer then what we have.

Also you have mentioned trying to make the forums safer but all I have seen from you is me me me me me and we do not approve of that attitude
 
Actual convo @ 9:23 PM

So now I am just refusing money......

[9:20:18 PM] sunjo: I saw your post on epicnpc forums about selling Wildstar keys and I am interested in purchasing one. I am "gustuv" on the forums and am posting to the thread now. How much for a full beta key?
[9:20:33 PM] *** HellHulk has shared contact details with sunjo. ***
[9:20:53 PM] HellHulk: 186.50, BUT as of now I am not supposedly allowed to sell to people whoi arent verified
[9:20:58 PM] HellHulk: are you verifed sir?
[9:21:19 PM] HellHulk: It costs 3.00 and a 24 hr hour wait period for you to become so, for me to sell you a key according to the rules of our site sir.
[9:22:03 PM] HellHulk: sir?
[9:22:21 PM] sunjo: I am new to the site. How do I get verified? :x sorry
[9:22:40 PM] HellHulk: It costs 3.00 to do so, via CC, and a wait of 24 hrs.
[9:22:58 PM] HellHulk: I would be banned for selling you a key without being "verified" sir.
 
You're missing the entire point Hulk.
You can SELL your codes to anyone you want. You may not BUY from people who are not verified.
 
I don't know how you are still confused we clarified it for you as simple as we could


non epic member or verified member status = cant sell beta keys
verified member / epic member status = can sell beta keys

if you want to take your purchases elsewhere then that is your choice

and yes this involves middle manning as if they aren't verified or at least at the epic member rank then they are breaking forum rules.


I don't think we can make this anymore clearer then what we have.

Also you have mentioned trying to make the forums safer but all I have seen from you is me me me me me and we do not approve of that attitude



Me me me me? Mr. Bean you know me better then that... most of the mods here have known me for years from EGS as XaNaToS.

I am the biggest fan of "safe" for everyone. I thought that's the service I have been providing for the last year to all of my customers.

That's my job, #1 customer service. I make people happy. I don't just do it to make a living, I do it as I enjoy making people happy.

But as the real sits, even someone coming across my Skype who found a thread here isn't even a member, I require them to become one and post.

Is it ok for me to sale if people approach me on Skype that have never been a member here? That's the confusing part for me.

I am "asking" all these new people to join our community. That doesn't sound like a me me me, that sounds more like a us, us, us.

I apologize if I seem Raw, but this directly impacts my entire business. Pro sellers make the site a safer place as well as Middlemen/women.

To get a warning, that seemed unfair to me; my understanding was that new people couldn't just start threads to sell keys. I liked that, meant more business for "us" and that more would get verified which also promotes our site.

I promote our site every chance I get, I require people to make accounts if they want to use my services.
 
Banned - dispute - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/keiichi-owes-me-fees-i-hope-he-is-okay-cool-dude.1433002/
Also to correct on that upgrading to Epic Member is Instant and doesn't require 24 hours of waiting, it's only if you want to become Epic Verified that it can take up to 24 hours to successfully becoming Epic Verified.
 
Actual convo @ 9:23 PM

So now I am just refusing money......

[9:20:18 PM] sunjo: I saw your post on epicnpc forums about selling Wildstar keys and I am interested in purchasing one. I am "gustuv" on the forums and am posting to the thread now. How much for a full beta key?
[9:20:33 PM] *** HellHulk has shared contact details with sunjo. ***
[9:20:53 PM] HellHulk: 186.50, BUT as of now I am not supposedly allowed to sell to people whoi arent verified
[9:20:58 PM] HellHulk: are you verifed sir?
[9:21:19 PM] HellHulk: It costs 3.00 and a 24 hr hour wait period for you to become so, for me to sell you a key according to the rules of our site sir.
[9:22:03 PM] HellHulk: sir?
[9:22:21 PM] sunjo: I am new to the site. How do I get verified? :x sorry
[9:22:40 PM] HellHulk: It costs 3.00 to do so, via CC, and a wait of 24 hrs.
[9:22:58 PM] HellHulk: I would be banned for selling you a key without being "verified" sir.

This is getting pretty out of hand imo, I mean in order for him to do his trade he could've done the following:

#1: Do as he did and not sell it.

#2: Pretend he doesn't sell it, but in reality selling it off-site on Skype. So it's basically the same as it was, but he wouldn't get a reply on the forums and no feedback for the sale.

This brings me to the conclusion that people with quite a bit of feedback are going to be alright and people with lower feedback will have a problem because let's face it most buyers you buy it from are what you call "Greys".
I do agree you can get scammed, but that's also the buyers problem I mean from all of my sales I've been scammed maybe once. And I do have the dispute up to get my money back next week.

I don't like to interfere with how you all run your forum, which I really enjoy btw but all I am saying is that we (your EpicVerified) users are not really happy with this new rule due to the fact that I stated above.
 
Stop. Seriously.

Please re-read the last 10 moderator posts. We aren't stopping anyone from buying keys. We are stopping ANYONE who is not verified from SELLING a key. To ANYONE. We didn't make this rule so our pro-sellers of Wildstar keys would have a money-making bonanza, we made this rule because the scamming over 200$ codes was getting out of hand.

Honestly...relax. This rule won't ruin your time here.
 
Banned - dispute - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/keiichi-owes-me-fees-i-hope-he-is-okay-cool-dude.1433002/
As long as it isn't within EpicNPC then people can feel free to sell to whoever they wants, we can't stop anyone from selling off-site but here at EpicNPC we have rules, and members who signed up here are expected to follow these rules that Admin handing out. And to be allowed to trade feedback here at EpicNPC registrered members must have sucessfully made transaction within EpicNPC so people can forget trading feedback if the deal happened outside EpicNPC, if it being caught then the Feedback will be instantly removed from both parts. Also if it happends that a member who doesn't follow these simple rules gets scammed sometime for a beta key/account by a Grey unverified members then it's the one who dealt with the unverified that have fully responsibility since this member choosed not to follow the rules so we moderators would not take any actions into it.

As i wrote earlier in this threads, we only allow Epic Verified and Epic Members to sell these beta keys. It's hard to belive that a member who only here to to rip off other peoples money/accounts puts out 3$ to upgrade their account and also to give out their phone number to verify it and then scam people and get banned and then again make a second and a third account and a forth to again and again upgrade their account and put 3$ for each account they create to keep scam people, i don't belive in that.

So i mention it a second time, if people aren't satisfied to follow these rules it can lead to great infractions and it even can go so far that people who ignores these rules and breaks them anyway can become permament banned. It doesn't matter if the member is Pro Seller Premium, Epic Verified, Epic Members, Official MM, Alot of REP whatever, this rule is for EVERYONE. But if people can't accept these rules then there are other forums that i'm sure haven't the same safety to prevent scamming especially for Beta Keys section or the Power Leveling sections then it's always opportunity start selling/buying beta keys/accounts there ofcourse.

As mentioned alot of times from myself and other mods to prevent big confussion:
Selling beta keys/account as a Verified/Pro seller and Member is allowed and everyone can buy from these usergroups mentioned
Selling or Hijacking as a Unverified (Grey username) is strictly not allowed and members in this usergroup are not allowed to post their sales in WTB threads if it happends it can result in big infractions/ban.


Also unverified members aren't allowed to take help by Epic Verified and Epic Members to post the sales for them.
 
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The above buyer who contacted me became verified and it was indeed, instant.

I sold him the key, and he left feedback.

I made the site 3.00 as he found me via google and you saw what I told him to do.

He paid.

I am here to adhere to the rules. I am no longer confused. I will buy keys only from verified members here. If they approach me on Skype using google then that is offsite and not against the rules. I am clear now. Thank you Mods for setting me straight.
 
Banned - dispute - https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/keiichi-owes-me-fees-i-hope-he-is-okay-cool-dude.1433002/
The above buyer who contacted me became verified and it was indeed, instant.

I sold him the key, and he left feedback.

I made the site 3.00 as he found me via google and you saw what I told him to do.

He paid.

I am here to adhere to the rules. I am no longer confused. I will buy keys only from verified members here. If they approach me on Skype using google then that is offsite and not against the rules. I am clear now. Thank you Mods for setting me straight.

Exactly, as long as it isn't within EpicNPC then it's fine to buy from whoever you like. Everytime a unverified adds you on Skype that comes directly from EpicNPC and wants to sell you a beta bey must upgrade to atleast Member for 3$ or Verified for 10$ then everything is just fine.
 
*Lightbulb*

Lets just make the entire beta section "viewable" only to unverified members. When they try to post they will be prompted to become a 3.00 or a 10.00 verified member in order to post.

I think this would be positive, in essence enforces the rule automatically with no mod intervention.

Maybe a dumb idea too, but guess anything is worth sharing.
 
Allow me to clear this up.

1) "Epic Members, "verified" and "Pro Sellers" are allowed to sell beta keys/accounts to anyone.

2) Non upgraded members cannot create threads in the beta forum. They also cannot sell keys/accounts in any other forum.
--- They are also no allowed to hi-jack someone else's thread offering to sell a beta key.

If #2 is working as intended there should be zero posts from unverified members selling beta keys/accounts on EpicNPC.

3) Anyone is allowed to sell beta keys off-site.

For example, bob1 is an unverified member or maybe not even a member and wants to sell a beta key. Joe1 has a WTB thread and wants to buy a beta key for Wildstar.

Bob1 is allowed to contact Joe1 to sell his beta key. What bob1 is not allowed to do is publicly post he wants to sell a beta key. However if he contacts someone on chat or email, that is off-site and not against our rules.

Our rules are for EpicNPC, not anywhere else.

In conclusion if someone contacts you on Skype selling a beta key, you can buy it. Our rules do not apply on Skype.


ps. just incase someone now wants to argue a scam on Skype or another site should have the same rule, the answer is no. Scamming is a crime, illegal everywhere, regardless of our rules.
 
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Allow me to clear this up.

1) "Epic Members, "verified" and "Pro Sellers" are allowed to sell beta keys/accounts to anyone.

2) Non upgraded members cannot create threads in the beta forum. They also cannot sell keys/accounts in any other forum.
--- They are also no allowed to hi-jack someone else's thread offering to sell a beta key.

If #2 is working as intended there should be zero posts from unverified members selling beta keys/accounts on EpicNPC.

Anyone is allowed to sell beta keys off-site.

For example, bob1 is an unverified member or maybe not even a member and wants to sell a beta key. Joe1 has a WTB thread and wants to buy a beta key for Wildstar.

Bob1 is allowed to contact Joe1 to sell his beta key. What bob1 is not allowed to do is publicly post he wants to sell a beta key. However if he contacts someone on chat or email, that is off-site and not against our rules.

Our rules are for EpicNPC, not anywhere else.

In conclusion if someone contacts you on Skype selling a beta key, you can buy it. Our rules do not apply on Skype.


ps. just incase someone now wants to argue a scam on Skype or another site should have the same rule, the answer is no. Scamming is a crime, illegal everywhere, regardless of our rules.

I was extremely close to commenting the fact about scamming on skype, but then read further, you covered that well!

Thanks
 
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