suggestion on dealing with scammers

[TRIPLESINNER]

I personally think that if a service provider lies about the service he or she provides and it costs someone their account (as in a banning) regardless of reimbursement they need to be banned for it.

I grow tired of seeing groups or companies lie to members about not using bots and or foriegn workers, which gives the whole community a bad name and public image. Honestly i think that it is time to take a stand here and put a stop to it.

 

[DarkDeserter]

Yeah I find it funny that companies that make more than enough money to completely reimburse you, can get away with not doing that. But plenty of normal members have been banned because a account they traded got recalled and they didn't have the money to reimburse the other person fully, because the other person transferred/bought gold,etc

Thats why I no longer use companies to power level/farm etc, I just picked up honorbuddy and it's been doing great.

 

[TRIPLESINNER]

well my problem with it is this, all too many times an account worth several hundred dollars gets banned, and they only give the customer 80 or 100 bucks or just refund what was paid. the customer has to take it or get nothing at all in return. this is total bull**** as far as i am concerned and something needs to be done about it. end of story.

 

[NormanBum]

I grow tired of seeing groups or companies lie to members about not using bots and or foriegn workers, which gives the whole community a bad name and public image. Honestly i think that it is time to take a stand here and put a stop to it.

Totally agreed. There has to be some sort of system put in place that forces companies to display where their workers are located and whether or not bots will be used in their services. We shouldn't have to ask anymore, it should be publicly displayed.

 

[TRIPLESINNER]

well lets start drumming up support for this, and a course of actions to be put into place when one of them lies again and screws over another person.

lets face it guys, allowing companies to post here that do this, is bad for everyone. think of the bad rep given out to a first timer that comes here and has this happen to them? they tell their freinds etc and it goes on and on like this.

 

[EpicNPC]

The problem is that it leaves a big door open for scammers to game the powerleveling companies out of refund costs.

For instance, a users has an account worth $400 and does some shady things on it. Thinking the account might be banned soon, they go and buy a powerleveling service for $30. A day later because of what the user did, not the powerleveling company, the account gets banned and now the powerleveling company has to pay $400 to the user for their account.

Whats worse is that the user can actually report their own account, trying to get it banned, just so they can get the PL company to pay for it.

Powerleveling services are a risky business and as a buyer you should know that going into it.

 

[TRIPLESINNER]

yeah but these guys should not be able to get away with doing business as they are basically i can say whatever i want to get someone's money, use it and abuse it and then just refund what they paid me. are you serious? this is not right, and some sites need to step up to put a stop to it. why should this be allowed to go on. i am saying if a person lies about how they are doing the work, or who is doing the work, they should be banned. period.

 

[EpicNPC]

I agree with you up to a point, the problem is coming up with a solution that deals with both sides.

I don't think PL companies should refund the full cost of the account, for the example I stated above, but I also don't think they should get away with just providing the user a refund.

The buyer, really needs to be aware, ask questions and come up with agreeable terms with the PL company before they turn over their account. Questions like

- Is the PL by hand or bots?
- What country are they in?
- What happens if my account gets banned?

The value of the account should be set before any leveling takes place and a refund percentage should be agreed to in the case it does get banned.

As a forum, we can't make rules like that as each Powerleveling company does things a bit different. However if a dispute were to arise, it would be clear as to what needs to be done.

 

[TRIPLESINNER]

how about as a requirement to offer services they have to have that info in their sig, and if they get caught lieing about it, they get a ban. location, employee location, and whether it is hand done or by bots.

as for the refund, well this may help to avoid that from even happening. and basically this is to help protect our community as a whole

 

[TJP]

What Mike said in his last post is what I am going to reiterate. The importance of a contract is crucial. You will never find a serious deal that does not involve a thorough contract or disclaimer. I agree that this intangibility and opaque business practice creates a shady environment for people to get some slack with bans. HOWEVER, I believe that the user who buys a service should ask the correct questions, and properly document any agreement made between the two users. I bought 5K gold once, and asked the seller whether or not they reimburse account value if the account were to be banned, since I was assured it wouldn't. They told me that they do not compensate the account or insure the gold on the account. I continued with the transaction, but with full knowledge of the risk I was taking on.

No one needs to write up a three-page contract describing every little detail of a transaction... a simple "Do you use bots? Are your PL from the US?" etc. is something that not only informs you of the risk you are taking on, but also gives you proof in the event that the ban does occur that you were guaranteed against certain bans.

Either way, in this case, we were dealing with a company that has not had very many recent accusations (if any) and that user resolved his case as asked to. I do not endorse practices like that of lilyopo or KcJ back in the day, when tons of scammer threads that ended up getting resolved wasn't an issue; however, you have to take into account their situation is 100x worse than what we have seen here.

Also, one hole I see in action versus these companies would be a responsibility issue. As far as I know, these companies probably don't have close ties with their employees, and it wouldn't be too hard to fudge your hand leveling for botting as a leveler in one of these companies. While, yes, the company is responsible for actions taken by the employees, the company itself shouldn't have immediate action taken against it, especially if they resolve the complaint in a timely manner.

 

[TRIPLESINNER]

wrong, on many points. look at the deal with joeuni for example. he stated and made a contract with the customer that it would be done by hand. it wasnt. account gets banned. the owner has to take less than what the account is worth, or risk getting nothing at all.

also, if you cant/dont watch closely what your employees do, that is the companies fault. they are the one who is responsible in the end. not the leveler. it is the company who is advertising things. if you can not control your employees, maybe it is time to find some new ones.

and just because a ton of posts have not been made on the user does not and should not mean squat. you stop it from coming to that by being proactive in your approach to how things should be done.

also tons of people dont bother posting these types of things because of just that, they get a sad sad refund and the company keeps right on advertising on these forums.

something does need to be done about this, joeuni is not the only one that does this. many many others have been called out in the past about it as well, and it gets buried so they can continue the scam on the next unsuspecting customer. not cool.

 

[TJP]

If you can give me a clear and concise agreement reached in their situation, I'd be very happy to read it. From what I read, words such as "grinding" and "farming" are ambiguous since bots technically achieve the same goal, and in many instances, captivate those very meanings. As I said, the company should and is held responsible for the employees. It is their fault for managing the employees and making sure they are working correctly. However, I don't believe that banning these companies on first offense is fair, as slip ups will always occur. If it becomes a trend, it is looked into and reviewed.

To those who don't post their experience on the forums; that is their responsibility. If they are satisfied with a meager compensation, then that is the end of the story. We cannot treat this differently than any other crime in real life: if the victim does not make an effort to report the criminal, we can do nothing to moderate behavior of the person. We are happy to take and review ANY accusation or account that comes our way, so long as it is done in the proper format. So if someone has a complaint they wish to share, they are more than welcome to do so.

Specifically speaking about Joeuni, here is the first post on his honor grinding thread:

the price is the cheapest on Markeedragon,more details,plz feel free to contact me through
AIM: joeuni210
MSN: [email protected]

He does not make any claim that he only has levelers grind by hand. I believe that the user must create the agreement (since no guarantees are made on the advertisement) and any accusation will be taken with serious review of the user in question. Believe me when I say that practices that involve lying and deception are NOT in my interest. I feel that they are WRONG, misleading, and should be put out of practice. However, I fail to see a clear trend in this user's activity, and the moderation team will be more than open to reviewing any user with the suspicion that there is a trend. If users don't report it, we don't hear about it.

 

[TJP]

Double.

 

[TRIPLESINNER]

so dont ban them for the first offense, avoid the situation by making it mandatory to list where they are from to start with. two where their employees are from, and three whether they bot or not. make this placed in their signature so that it is in every post.

this will cause alot of future issues like this to not even be brought up.

 

[TJP]

so dont ban them for the first offense, avoid the situation by making it mandatory to list where they are from to start with. two where their employees are from, and three whether they bot or not. make this placed in their signature so that it is in every post.

this will cause alot of future issues like this to not even be brought up.

This is something I was thinking of and I will definitely toss this up the ladder as it is a pretty minor implementation that will, as you said, clear up a lot of misconception.

I, or someone else, will definitely update this thread with a decision. If it interests you, I fully support your idea with a minor tweak; and that is that the description of the service be put in the first post of the thread (mandatory) but not 100% required in the signature. Like I said, I will toss this up for debate and will update this thread when we come out with a conclusion .