Sticky recommendation: List of previously known recalled accounts

[MMO-Armory.com]

I would like to make a recommendation to have a sticky in each forum section, listing accounts that have been previously recovered by original owners. I believe this can reduce fraud rate, discourage owners from recovering accounts, and more importantly protect buyers (resellers and customers alike) from buying fraudulent accounts.

The list I propose for Battle.net accounts would contain:
- Last name <-- The only piece of a Bnet account that cannot be changed using conventional methods. Even namechanging can be difficult, and if an owner recovers an account, than the name will be reverted to the old last name.
- A 1 sentence line identifying the most characteristic features of an account.

I understand forum privacy rules about personal information. Full name and address etc would be a no go. Just last name I think would not be an issue, but please do clarify if it is. For example, there are probably thousands of last names with "Roberts" "Sanchez" "Marks" and so on.

As we know, banning an account in forums does no good. They can still sell their account. Having this list -can- prevent fraud if people are diligent enough to spend 5 minutes to search through the thread.

For the list to be effective, a mod/admin has to update the list and add replied additions to the verified main thread that is stickied. And keep note of the following:
- Only verified trusted high rep sellers can immediately add an account to the "Previously Recovered Accounts List", without a mod having to verify that it is indeed a scam in the scam busters section. Why? Because many normal buyers/sellers are not really 100% sure when an account is actually recovered, or hacked, or stolen by a third party etc.
- When a non verified seller makes a report that an account is recovered, it should be listed in a provisional list, with a footnote that those accounts need to be verified before it is confirmed that it is indeed recalled. This can be done by the usual scam reporting method.

The list would look like this for an example:

Last name | Characteristic features of the account
Roberts | Shaman - Rank 1 Wrathful Gladiator - Rank 1 Brutal Gladiator - Rank 1 Vengeful Gladiator - 3x Rank 1
Sanchez | Paladin - Scarab Lord - Contest Winner's Tabard - Rank 14 High Warlord / Field Marshal
Marks | Hunter - 200+ Mounts - Ashes of Al'ar - Corrupted Ashbringer

The reason people recover accounts is so that they can have it sold again. If we make it difficult for people to sell stolen accounts, we can discourage them from recovering accounts, and if they are discouraged from recovering, we can reduce the chance of account buyers from having accounts stolen from them. And most importantly, we can prevent account buyers from buying dangerous accounts in the first place.

 

[EpicNPC]

It's not a bad idea, but I'm worried about false positives. Like you said, there's probably hundreds for players with the same common last name, so I'm sure some of those people also have similar characters. For example two players both named Smith that both happen to have high-end Shamans with a similar build.

Many games have optimal builds for certain classes where there's only 3 or 4 variations that most players go for. Listing character info like this could get innocent accounts banned, which isn't something I would want to do.

A second issue is with proof. You said that highly repped members should be able to add characters to the list without proof, however as we all know even highly repped members have been banned for scams and in some cases go out with a dozen or so scam threads against them.

If they don't have to provide any proof, how can we be sure the claim is true? One scam example I can think of is this.

BigSeller buys account from bob.
BigSeller wants to scam bob.
BigSeller adds bob's account info the "Character Recall" list and disputes the payment he sent to bob
Bob files a dispute, but BigSeller says "look this character is on the Recall list, so this account has a history of recalls", when in fact it doesn't and BigSeller is lying.

I would hope in all cases the truth would come out, but I fear that because someone is highly repped from time to time a scam like this would work.

The first issue is easier to overcome. The "Recall" list would be private to only Verified members and much more data would have to be provided to ensure there aren't false-positives. This way the lists isn't searchable outside of EpicNPC so even if there was a false-positive from time to time it wouldn't pose any danger to that player's account.

The issue with proof is more complicated. If proof is going to be required, then I would want a Dispute thread opened for it, but because larger sellers tend to not file disputes, the list would obviously be smaller making it less effective. However I'm not willing to allow a no-proof-required type of system where large sellers can label accounts as recallers freely.

My suggestion

• The Scammers forum receives a "Recall List" private subforum that only Verified members can view and post in.
• Only accounts involved in recorded disputes (those threads listed in the scammers forum) can be added to the "Recall list"
  • This ensures that proof has been provided
• More information about the accounts will have to be provided.
  • First initial, last name
  • Real Armory URL
  • Anonymous Armory URL incase the character is transferred or name changed since these keep info permanently
  • URL to dispute thread
  • Country ?
  • 1 item from the order history page (order number, date) ?
  • BATTLETAG?

The bottom 3 items I'm not sure about, I think they would be useful to have when trying to determine if the account is the same as another, but since recalled characters tend to be transferred around, that info might cause more harm then good. I wanted to add it to get opinions on.

Let me know what your thoughts are and I'd also like to hear from other members to hear when they think.

 

[Accountwarehouse.com]

This is a lot of extra work for something that is easily avoidable by not buying any accounts that have any history of recalls, compromises, etc.

 

[Sakura]

I agree that this is a great idea to prevent more scams but the actual implementation just would not be positive with last names and the sheer effort it would take.

 

[MMO-Armory.com]

I agree with all the points stated by all the responders above.


Regarding effort required to add an item to the list:
As others have mentioned, the list will only work and be active if it doesn't take too much effort to add an item

• As we know, sellers almost never write scam threads. The reason is obvious, it is time consuming and bears no fruit. When we get scammed, we must work double time to earn back what is lost. This leaves no time to make scam reports.

I would recommend only Last name, and a precise account description (see next point). First name can be changed by transferring out, battletag can be changed, secret question as well.

Regarding similar accounts
It is very much possible to identify accounts so that similar accounts from a person with an identical last name is not marked as a fraudulent account. One of the most characteristic example is by using achievement date. For example:
Last Name | Earned Achievement X (June 21 2013)
This leaves an extremely small chance of two accounts with a similar last name being wrongly marked as fraudulent.

Regarding users submitting false positives and repped selelrs using the list to scam
For the most part, I know we have seen our fair share of repped traders gone bad, and this is a very valid point. This "warning list" should not be able to be used as leverage to claim an account is unsafe or has been used fraudulently. It should only serve as a warning, so that if a person finds an account that matches the description, they should pay more attention before making the purchase.

The key to make it work is that it should not take too much effort to add an item to the list. Last name, precise description, and it's added. I do not recommend requiring a scam thread link.. as many sellers just won't bother.

A user can of course petition to remove an item from a list via a thread. And sellers who freely throw in names into the list that turn out to be petitioned can and should be banned after several warnings.

There needs to be a big disclaimer up top stating that the list is provisional, unmoderated, and only serves as a caution. It should state that none of the items that made it on the list are 100% verified to be fraudulent.

Each entry should have the name of the EpicNPC user who submitted that account to the list.

And yes, I agree that such a list should only available to epic verified members.

 

[MMO-Armory.com]

I'd like to bump this up.

I could have saved dozens of people from buying accounts that I know have been fraudulent.

This week alone 2 people approached me, told me they had a really nice account, the description sound familiar, I straight away told them I knew the last name on the acconut, and bam, confirmed the account was unsafe.

Having an account on this list does not mean an account is 100% unsafe. It doesn't even guarantee it's referring to the exact same account. But people can be cautious when something looks similar.

False positives doesn't really matter: a legit person can prove themself.

This has little impact on me as a seller. This would save a lot of people a lot of money and distraught.

Please give it serious consideration.

 

[EpicNPC]

There needs to be a big disclaimer up top stating that the list is provisional, unmoderated, and only serves as a caution.

I'm okay with allowing this or at least giving it a try. The list would have to be in a new private forum that only Verified users could access. The reason being is since the list is unmoderated and no proof as been provided for any of the claims, I don't want the information to be public.

I'll put this on the to-do list and once I iron out the rules, I'll create the private forum and make the announcement.

 

[EpicNPC]

Its been added
http://www.epicnpc.com/threads/629475-Blacklist-private-forum-added