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  1. #31
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    Just giving some input from my point of view. I personally have never used nor offered a middleman service, just to clarify.


    I think that offering a personal middleman service from the owners of the site is a great addition, because:
    • It will be the most trustworthy way of middlemanning
    • It may be easier if the system is well made
    • It may be faster, again, if the system is well made (I didn't check/test it yet, therefore I'm stating it in this way)


    But I also think that not allowing other people to offer it as well is not good, because:
    • Other people might offer more advanced/custom middleman like:
      • Holding the money to prevent charge-backs or
      • Giving some sort of account recall warranty

    • Offer a more personal service, because:
      • People may feel more comfortable if its a more personal level
      • They may not feel as "pressured" (probably not the right word but I hope you get what I'm trying to say) when everything isn't going perfectly smooth etc.


    I can fully understand both sides point of view and I'm not sure either what or how the best solution would be but I think that you should consider this change a little more because from the looks of it some may be looking for alternative forums now from what I've read. Maybe something in the direction of restricting the middleman service a bit (in terms of who is allowed to offer it) and work them into the system (with a % payout) may be a good deal if the intentions aren't money.


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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by EpicNPC View Post
    Members that sell game accounts, items and services do for a certain amount of games, so the scope is limited to those games. A middleman service has a much wider reach and includes everything. This is what I mean by they're not comparable, we're not selling a item or service for a specific game. Secondly MM services is a security service, not a game service. As stated, a website has an obligation to provide safety to it's community and a dedicated MM can do just that.

    In regards to safety, take a look at the dispute forum. Many disputes involve fake MM and many more tickets and messages report similar scam attempts . Having a single unified MM service make it's simpler and causes less confusion for buyers. It greatly reduces the fake MM scam by keeping everything on site.
    Sorry but pretending to be an angel is pathethic , u are FORBIDDING other ppl to make a MM service , thats problem , noone is against official MM EPIC npc service , ppl are against ur greed and that u are removing other sellers , who have WAY MORE exp in MM than any of ur workers there.If we , sellers who made thios forum what it is now , allow u and ur greedy staff to implement services like these , u will do more and more in future , without caring whats outcome on sellers and ppl who make living of this.I dont get it why would u cripple ur site and forum so badly.I know u wont withdraw ur decision , but atleast we have right to say something in hope u will come to some normal thinking.


  4. #33
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    @Cecile28 I appreciate the suggestion. At this time the only thing we have changed is that dedicated MM threads have been removed.

    Threads in the MM Forum remain (but are closed) and members that mention their MM service in other threads also remain until the end of November. So there's a grace period and most members offering MM service have not been affected.

    I am open to compromise and will always listen to the opinions of our members. During the grace period, I'm willing to wait and possibly reconsider some of the rules as we get closer to the end of November, but for the month of November we'll keep the rules as posted in post #1.

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  6. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by EpicNPC View Post
    Members that sell game accounts, items and services do for a certain amount of games, so the scope is limited to those games. A middleman service has a much wider reach and includes everything. This is what I mean by they're not comparable, we're not selling a item or service for a specific game. Secondly MM services is a security service, not a game service. As stated, a website has an obligation to provide safety to it's community and a dedicated MM can do just that.

    In regards to safety, take a look at the dispute forum. Many disputes involve fake MM and many more tickets and messages report similar scam attempts . Having a single unified MM service make it's simpler and causes less confusion for buyers. It greatly reduces the fake MM scam by keeping everything on site.
    It's still a service that members could offer just like any other service.
    Disabling members from offering it is no different than disabling them from offering accounts for a particular game. The scope shouldn't matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by EpicNPC View Post
    In regards to safety, take a look at the dispute forum. Many disputes involve fake MM and many more tickets and messages report similar scam attempts . Having a single unified MM service make it's simpler and causes less confusion for buyers. It greatly reduces the fake MM scam by keeping everything on site.
    It might reduce the fake MM scam, but not greatly as you claim. The difference that it can make is very minor.
    It might shift people from impersonating MMs to impersonating high rep sellers directly, but it will not reduce the overall scam rate using impersonation.
    Impersonation will always exist, one way or another.

    You are avoiding the real problem here.

    Quote Originally Posted by MistiServices View Post
    Sorry but pretending to be an angel is pathethic , u are FORBIDDING other ppl to make a MM service , thats problem , noone is against official MM EPIC npc service , ppl are against ur greed and that u are removing other sellers , who have WAY MORE exp in MM than any of ur workers there.If we , sellers who made thios forum what it is now , allow u and ur greedy staff to implement services like these , u will do more and more in future , without caring whats outcome on sellers and ppl who make living of this.I dont get it why would u cripple ur site and forum so badly.I know u wont withdraw ur decision , but atleast we have right to say something in hope u will come to some normal thinking.
    Exactly.

    Last edited by The Integrity; 11-03-2017 at 03:03 PM.

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  8. #35
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    I have MM'd on this site since 2013. In my experience there are plenty of online games that require a lot of different procedures to verify an account.

    Note: Since I have been middlemanning out of the 100's I have done maybe 1 or 2 had issues which were resolved other than that I had 0 issues.

    For Ex.

    LoL Trade. When I usually do this I verify Skypes / Emails all the basics to see if they are banned anywhere else on the internet or not. Then I make the seller fill one of these out.

    "
    - Account Name (the name you log into the LoL client with):
    - Summoner Name (the name your friends see in-game):
    - Password:
    - The server you play on (NA, EU-West or EU-Nordic/East):
    - When was the last time that you had access to the account (Month/Day/Year):
    - Creation date of the account (Month and Year):
    - Original email address used to register the account:
    - Location where you registered the account (City and Country):
    - List of locations that you have played on this account(City and Country):
    - Last IP address used to play League of Legends -
    - Internet Service Provider (ISP)/Internet Carrier when registering the account:
    - Other people who have ever had access to the account:
    - How did you first come into possession of the account:
    - Location of RP purchases (City and Country):
    - Approximate dates of most recent RP purchases:
    - Email address linked to PayPal account:
    - Unique PayPal transaction IDs associated with purchase(s):
    - Payoncreditcard Transaction ID:
    - Phone number(s), mobile provider, and country used for SMS transactions:
    - Any PaySafe Card PIN/Transaction IDs:
    - Any Prepaid RP card PINs:
    - The last 4 digits and expiration date of any credit card(s) used to purchase RP:
    - Any transaction or confirmation numbers received via email for this account:
    - First five champions ever purchased on this account:
    - First item ever purchased with RP (if applicable):
    - List of at least 5 Summoner names of friends you have referred:
    - List of at least 5 Summoner names of friends on your friends list:
    - Any other family members/friends that have access to your account:
    - Did you create the account?:
    - Do you have any alternate/smurf accounts?:
    - Has your email account ever been compromised?:
    "
    Is this something that EpicnpcMM will be doing as well. I really hope that this is something that should be taken in consideration and allow other MM's to provide there services as well. Cutting out your long time members who have provided so much to the site is just a slap in the face. I still rarely do MM's when I have time but I know there are folks out there that use this as a good side income for them. Buyers and or sellers on this site should have a choice of which MM they want to choose instead of going through only ONE Forced system.

    Logisticz


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  10. #36
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    We do not collect any info we can't verify. Many of those questions are not verifiable, so there's no way to confirm if the answer is accurate or not. However we do many things in addition to just changing the login info, so yes, the service does many of those things you listed depending what the game or account is.


  11. #37
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    I agree with the points made by Integrity and Misti. I am not a MM and never was; I don't quite understand why you are forbidding users from offering their own MM services but will instead monopolize it.


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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by EpicNPC View Post
    @Cecile28 I appreciate the suggestion. At this time the only thing we have changed is that dedicated MM threads have been removed.

    Threads in the MM Forum remain (but are closed) and members that mention their MM service in other threads also remain until the end of November. So there's a grace period and most members offering MM service have not been affected.

    I am open to compromise and will always listen to the opinions of our members. During the grace period, I'm willing to wait and possibly reconsider some of the rules as we get closer to the end of November, but for the month of November we'll keep the rules as posted in post #1.
    So basicly if ur service fail u will allow other to offer their service again , like nothing happend.And later on when u come to some new idea how to **** over users , u will push it to see will it be accepted.So if u are testing something to see how it works ,dont test it that others bear burden of ur adventure into MM market.


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  15. #39
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    Instead of Banning Middleman service outright, i think EPICNPC can hire the current MM and tax the transaction instead. Under this structure, when a member wish to use middleman service, he will click the Official middleman button. After he click the button, a list of current available MM will pop up. Then he can select which one he want to use. All the communication will be through the forum and EPICNPC can tax each transaction. EPICNPC can also make it a bannable offense if MM want to take the deals offsite. This structure can also make sure that MM service is available 24/7 and that MM with specific knowledge of certain games will perform better than EPICNPC.

    To make sure EPICNPC receive the exact amount of fees for each transaction, MM who wishes to continue offer service has to make a deposit to EPICNPC first. For example, it can be $300 to $500 or more. Every time when transaction is completed, the fee will be deduct from the deposit. Once the deposit falls below certain threshold, the MM will need to deposit more $$ before he/she can continue off the service.

    For a long time, I have been suggested a mandatory deposit for anyone who wishes to provide MM service because once in awhile we see MM does exit scam. If a deposit is required, MM will not be able to do an exit scam and will be liable for any mistake incurred during the process.

    I have more ideas on this thing, PM me if you want to know more. But i think my suggestion can provide a coexisting solution for both sides.

    Last edited by somaliasky; 11-05-2017 at 12:56 AM.

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  17. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by somaliasky View Post
    Instead of Banning Middleman service outright, i think EPICNPC can hire the current MM and tax the transaction instead. Under this structure, when a member wish to use middleman service, he will click the Official middleman button. After he click the button, a list of current available MM will pop up. Then he can select which one he want to use. All the communication will be through the forum and EPICNPC can tax each transaction. EPICNPC can also make it a bannable offense if MM want to take the deals offsite. This structure can also make sure that MM service is available 24/7 and that MM with specific knowledge of certain games will perform better than EPICNPC.

    To make sure EPICNPC receive the exact amount of fees for each transaction, MM who wishes to continue offer service has to make a deposit to EPICNPC first. For example, it can be $300 to $500 or more. Every time when transaction is completed, the fee will be deduct from the deposit. Once the deposit falls below certain threshold, the MM will need to deposit more $$ before he/she can continue off the service.

    For a long time, I have been suggested a mandatory deposit for anyone who wishes to provide MM service because once in awhile we see MM does exit scam. If a deposit is required, MM will not be able to do an exit scam and will be liable for any mistake incurred during the process.

    I have more ideas on this thing, PM me if you want to know more. But i think my suggestion can provide a coexisting solution for both sides.
    ITs a good idea but then this is not a FORUM , it becomes a PAY TO WORK SITE.Point is that this is a forum , place where ppl can offer stuff and services , not a marketplace.This is one of 3 best forums i use , but with all this greedy ideas and rules which prevent us to use site as we want,wont be so good in future.


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  19. #41
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    As stated, we will re-evaluate at the end of November and decide if any of the rule changes need to be adjusted.


  20. #42
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    Let's close this thread if our comments does not make sense.



  21. #43
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    I would like to leave my opinion as a new trader who joined this site recently.

    I've done 3 trades here and each time I used a different middleman. Each of them had a different pricing and a different process for the trade with some advantages and disadvantages.

    I'd like to mention some things that no one so far has mentioned.

    1. The official middleman service has a $10 base fee, which is not the best option in case of cheap trades. If I'm buying an account worth $20, paying another $11.2 for the MM fee makes the total price over 50% higher, which would be a dealbreaker for me. A trusted member helped me do a $15 account purchase for just $3, which is much more reasonable.

    2. Members providing MM service are much more flexible when it comes to paying the fee. They can accept many different payment methods, including skins and gift cards. Their fees are negotiable and even refundable in case the trade fails.

    3. They are more flexible when it comes to checking the account. I was buying an account for a game that is not often traded. The middleman downloaded the game for me, which took a few hours, entered the account and checked if a particular item that I was mostly interested in existed on the account.

    Not all middlemen did the things I mentioned nor were they willing to do them. But if you combine all of the features that each of their services provide, all of these are possible. And that is the main advantage of having variety and a choice between multiple different services.

    The new official middleman service is a really good addition to the site and I'll definitely try it in the near future, but I do not like the fact that it will be my only option. Like I said, each service has it's advantages and disadvantages and having a choice is important.


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  23. #44
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    @Luma Is Here Thank you for your input.

    1. We can't provide a MM service for less than $10. Even a simple MM transaction can take 20-30 minutes so we can't spend that much time for $3.00. That's why the minimum cost is $10.

    2. Yes, but as our service grows we will increase availability times. We also refund the full transaction is both parties decide to cancel right away. However once the seller transfers the account or item to the MM, we only issue a partial refund, the base $10 is not refundable. Again, this is because of the time we have to dedicated to the transaction.

    3. Yes, many different MM services will be able to offer a variety of services, some that we will not provide. Our goal is to come up with a simple and consistent MM service. In the example you gave, it would be much faster to screenshare instead of downloading and installing a game. Over time we will adjust or add features to our MM service to try to offer everything a buyer or seller needs. Buyers and sellers can also request us to do certain things and we'll attempt to do them as long as they're not too time consuming.


  24. #45
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    [removed]

    Last edited by doomedtofail; 11-06-2017 at 10:00 PM.

 

 
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